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re: How would you guys feel about Ryan Shazier?
Posted on 4/21/14 at 1:33 pm to LooseCannon22282
Posted on 4/21/14 at 1:33 pm to LooseCannon22282
quote:
most of the time it seems like the plays we have trouble with are to the outside... kind of a run off tackle?
For a while now we've had trouble with the backs who peek inside then bounce it to the outside.
A lack of MLB speed lends us to getting burned with this.
Cam plays the run outside really well with his speed. Junior seems to get caught to deep inside when trying to get to the outside vs the run.
Carolina would do this so much the plays were either called whodat left or whodat right!
1
Posted on 4/21/14 at 2:02 pm to goatmilker
Yeah, MLB speed is an issue, which is something Shazier (or even Mosley) would rectify. Also, DB's can get lost in the wash of pulling guards in sub packages. Philly did this to their doom in the playoffs last year.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 2:47 pm to mm2316
quote:
Just to play Devil's Advocate, when you say say Day 1 in regards to David, are you referring to Day 1 of his pro career?
Both. David was a very physical inside backer at Nebraska & it translated on the field in the pros as well.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 8:59 pm to BigBrod81
This board's recent obsession with Shazier is nauseating. Not one person claiming we should draft him has alluded to a single aspect of his game that isn't based on combine measureables. Thank God this new regime actually watches film and is done taking workout warriors. Shazier would be a horrible pick at 27.
He's not a downhill player in the slightest. He gets absolutely swallowed up whenever you force him at the point of attack. He's not a natural blitzer and for someone as fast and athletic as he is, his pass coverage leaves alot to be desired. He doesn't have the natural instincs others do in coverage. His gap discipline is also laughable at times (and this isn't as easily coached as people think).
Watch the tape on Shazier, it doesn't lie. I would HATE this pick.
He's not a downhill player in the slightest. He gets absolutely swallowed up whenever you force him at the point of attack. He's not a natural blitzer and for someone as fast and athletic as he is, his pass coverage leaves alot to be desired. He doesn't have the natural instincs others do in coverage. His gap discipline is also laughable at times (and this isn't as easily coached as people think).
Watch the tape on Shazier, it doesn't lie. I would HATE this pick.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:00 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Everything you can say negative about him is something that can be coached up, so as long as he takes the coaching I'd love to have him.
Being physical at the point of attack is not overly coachable.
Having natural instincts in pass coverage is not overly coachable.
Gap discipline is coachable to an extent, but it's like vision with a RB, it's a lot harder than you think to coach.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:03 pm to Zoombop
quote:
I would love it. He's a tremendously talented freak who compares to Lavonte David.
This comparison has got to stop.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:05 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
This board's recent obsession with Shazier is nauseating. Not one person claiming we should draft him has alluded to a single aspect of his game that isn't based on combine measureables.
To be fair, no one on this board has the time to watch game tape on every possible player the team could draft.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:13 pm to FootballNostradamus
I would say something like "I think the coaching staff knows more about football than you do."
Did Shazier sleep with your gf? That's a classic.
A comment about being an arm chair GM.
yadda yadda yadda.
Also, chitty chitty bang bang.
Did Shazier sleep with your gf? That's a classic.
A comment about being an arm chair GM.
yadda yadda yadda.
Also, chitty chitty bang bang.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 9:15 pm
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:21 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:Calm your tits.
FootballNostradamus
That's a good one.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:23 pm to Hoodoo Man
Insert remove tampon joke.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:40 pm to Hoodoo Man
quote:
Calm your tits.
People get animated in a good way about a guy. I can't get animated in a bad way about him?
I'm just saying I vehemently disagree with the belief that he is a first round talent and think he would be a horrible pickup.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:43 pm to FootballNostradamus
I just wanted to chime in on the Shazier situation. Ok, like it's America, and you have 1st Amendment, but K, that doesn't mean that other people don't have it too. And I don't care what color you are; black, white, green, purple etc
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 9:44 pm
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:45 pm to Patrick O Rly
quote:
I would say something like "I think the coaching staff knows more about football than you do."
Did Shazier sleep with your gf? That's a classic.
Nah, I used to coach with a high school in South Carolina. We run a very similar offense to Clemson and have a very strong relationship with their coaching staff.
As such they received numerous tapes from them of Ohio State games they were using during bowl prep as well as the entire cut-up after the fact of their Orange Bowl film against Ohio State. We use it to try to guage our abilities to scout an opponent and compare it to what a college staff actually does, see what we thought would work that did and vice versa. I asked to be forwarded these tapes just as a favor and they obliged.
I don't pretend to have watched much of any film on all the prospects, but I've seen alot on Shazier. He has a ton of potential athletically, but he can be exploited at the point of attack and with misdirection.
As I've said before, Clemson's gameplan was predicated upon exposing Shazier. I'm just not comfortable with our first round pick being someone that college coaching staffs think they can consistently attack and beat (and they did, they made him look like a clown in the Orange Bowl).
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:47 pm to FootballNostradamus
I was just using a canned response.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:47 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
FootballNostradamus
You make some very good points on Shazier which many I agree with. I understand where you are coming from but your approach is only going to draw negative responses.
No matter what Shazier's measurables are he plays very "soft" especially against the run. He gets caught up in the wash far too much. That something that cannot be changed with coaching. Take Khalil Mack as an example. He uses great technique but he also has a natural ability to disengage blockers & get to ball carriers. Mack will be a great one whether he plays inside or outside, 3-4 or 4-3, it doesn't matter. I don't see that type of ability from Shazier.
It isn't just with Shazier but Bradley Roby as well. Bradley was terrible at times for Ohio St. this past season but because of great combine & workout numbers, he's being hyped as a can't miss product. He's not a great corner. He has poor fundementals as well as a poor attitude. He's had character issues on & off the field but there's some who are infatuated with drafting Roby but at the same time throw out character issues as reasons to not draft other players. I really don't get it.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 9:58 pm to BigBrod81
quote:
You make some very good points on Shazier which many I agree with. I understand where you are coming from but your approach is only going to draw negative responses.
Yea, probably could have toned it down, but people have just been obsessed with this guy lately and he screams bust to me.
quote:
No matter what Shazier's measurables are he plays very "soft" especially against the run. He gets caught up in the wash far too much. That something that cannot be changed with coaching.
This is why the David comment is so ridiculous to me. If anyone has watched David play or saw him at Nebraska, they'd know that he's nothing like Shazier. David moves laterally extremely well, but his biggest skill is his ability to square-up and get downhill instantly.
If you try to send a FB his way or even wham him he's going to blow shite up. If he can't disengage and make the play that's fine, but he understands leverage and force technique. Shazier will get put on skates and probably make the tackle 8 yards downfield. He'll get credit for a tackle but the offense gets 8 yards whereas David won't get credit but the ILB flowing to him and will make the stop at the LOS. I'd be willing to bet over half of Shazier's tackles took place further than 5 yards past the LOS.
quote:
Take Khalil Mack as an example. He uses great technique but he also has a natural ability to disengage blockers & get to ball carriers. Mack will be a great one whether he plays inside or outside, 3-4 or 4-3, it doesn't matter.
Mack's technique is brilliant. His hands and understanding of leverage makes him borderline indefensible. He's gonna be a great one for somebody.
quote:
It isn't just with Shazier but Bradley Roby as well. Bradley was terrible at times for Ohio St. this past season but because of great combine & workout numbers, he's being hyped as a can't miss product. He's not a great corner.
Completely agree. Keep Roby the hell away from the black and gold. He's a fringe 2nd round pick IMO.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:01 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:Disagree with all of that except for getting swallowed up if a lineman gets to him.
He's not a downhill player in the slightest. He gets absolutely swallowed up whenever you force him at the point of attack. He's not a natural blitzer and for someone as fast and athletic as he is, his pass coverage leaves alot to be desired. He doesn't have the natural instincs others do in coverage. His gap discipline is also laughable at times (and this isn't as easily coached as people think).
Someone posted his "worst" games and they weren't bad at all. He made some bad plays but watching it a lot of being out of position is from the playing calling putting him in zone.
A big flaw with that was his was so quick to get to his zone he would be there before he read the play. But then you see him come flying back in and half the time he still made the play.
He is extremely good going downhill on the blitz or run as long as you keep him clean. He's not a big run stuffing LB so it's not like you'd expect him to take on a guy weighing 60-100 lbs more and have him win consistently.
And again most of his coverage "issues" was the zones they were playing. When he was manned up he held his own more often than not.
And I see plenty of natural instincts, but he lacks the discipline to wait that one second to read the play before dropping into zone. That can be coached and we also play less zone in our defense.
The biggest issue I have we him that you didn't mention was his tendency to arm tackle. That drives me nuts and reminds me a bit of Jenkins, though he is much better at it. It's also coachable but that would be the biggest issue keeping me away.
This post was edited on 4/21/14 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:04 pm to FootballNostradamus
Do you like Bruce Ellington as a WR prospect?
He's my long shot hope for the Saints to draft. I haven't seen anywhere that they are interested in him so that's why I think its a lost cause.
sorry for the thread hijack.
He's my long shot hope for the Saints to draft. I haven't seen anywhere that they are interested in him so that's why I think its a lost cause.
sorry for the thread hijack.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:08 pm to bonethug0108
I don't know if we can rely on our linebackers being coached.
Posted on 4/21/14 at 10:12 pm to LooseCannon22282
quote:
Do you like Bruce Ellington as a WR prospect?
I'm definitely an Ellington fan. You'll be able to get him cheap, and that family is athletic as sin (see Andre Ellington at Arizona).
Ellington is an absolutely firery competitor who is willing to block and has the quicks to get open from the slot.
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