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re: Lowry & 76'ers

Posted on 5/17/17 at 10:53 am to
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5730 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 10:53 am to
I'd love Mills and his spacing ability and leadership, don't get me wrong, but I'd prefer to get PJ Tucker as part of the MLE who can bring defensive toughness, leadership, and spacing as a backup wing to Solo. You then could get a Shelvin Mack, Justin Holiday, or maybe even Tim Hardaway, Jr if you want to put Jrue back on ball.

My biggest things are that we need to somehow move Pondexter, Frazier, and Ajinca. I like Frazier but if you could get someone with more size and a higher ceiling you do it (Elfrid Payton, maybe?)
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5730 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 10:54 am to
quote:

But what if Rubio costs a first and Mills costs Moore?


Then, of course, you pull that trigger. Mills is an upgrade offensively, knows how to win, and can be hidden defensively.

Rubio is the perfect PG for this system. Like I said, I'm not opposed to it in this scenario.
This post was edited on 5/17/17 at 10:55 am
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 10:57 am to
They think Hill will grow more and play a bunch. So they think a guard will play more and have a better impact than a backup SF
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 10:57 am to
No, I meant if it's an either or thing
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5730 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:02 am to
Oh, gotcha.

Hmm, assuming Holiday is kept, I move to get Rubio.

I love his defense which I highly value. He is an elite passer and his shooting stroke has improved. It takes a ton of pressure off of Jrue and would create havoc on the perimeter with those two and Solo.

Moore and Crawford (assuming he doesn't regress) could be a good scoring duo off the bench and both could play alongside Jrue with the second unit to give him opportunities to be the primary ball handler. You also don't lose anything defensively, or, at least, not much by keeping Moore with that second unit.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:04 am to
But then it's an opportunity cost debate because in the scenario you get Mills, you still have the ability to trade all your future 1sts and you could get a better player in February for a pick history indicates
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5730 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:09 am to
I understand and see the attraction, but you're leaving a lot to chance in that scenario IMO.

Like you say all the time, it's not ALL about talent. Pieces have to fit too. Everything should center around AD and Boogie. If we can become a better version of Memphis with their defensive prowess, but just so happen to be more offensively inclined, Rubio offers you a pretty damn good chance at that AND doesn't kill your cap in future years because of his current contract. So, if you want to make a play for a Wall or Butler in two years you still can whereas Mills is under contract longer so it may limit you. Plus, Moore will be an expiring at that point and with his current contract could be a tradeable asset down the line for better depth in other areas.

I'm not sure what else you'd have to let go to get Rubio but if they still think Dunn is their PG of the future they may seem willing to take less now (1st, Frazier, Ajinca say).
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61440 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:16 am to
quote:

I understand and see the attraction, but you're leaving a lot to chance in that scenario IMO.


That's what the better teams do, they leave things up to "chance". They aren't so desperate that they give up their flexibility so they are able to strike when there is an opportunity rather than being forced to fill a need. Rubio might cost a 1st this summer but if Dunn improves they might be looking to give Rubio away at the deadline again.
This post was edited on 5/17/17 at 11:18 am
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:22 am to
Ding, ding, ding

Most fans are trying to solve as many problems as possible by July 18th, which confuses me because then they turn around and call Demps short sighted

This team will go as the Big 2 do, so stay flexible. Don't throw all your chips in on the first hand and leave yourself no wiggle room down the line
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5730 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:27 am to
It's not that I'm trying to solve all the problems all at once. I just see the other side where if Rubio continues to improve, they could change their thinking on Dunn and could want a king's ransom for Rubio.

You speak of opportunity cost and letting things play out. I tend to agree, but you asked me about this particular scenario. You have a guy that's two years younger. Sure you trade 2018 1st, but you still have 2019 1st and beyond. You have a guy that is under contract for less time and probably less money than what Mills will command and you still get to keep other tangible assets handy for future dealings.

I see both of your point. I just also see the other side. The short-sighted part of my argument is that I am assuming Gentry is the coach all season and beyond this year. I would think that if the playoffs are made he'd stick around but this is the Pels...
This post was edited on 5/17/17 at 11:28 am
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5730 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:29 am to
Plus, in all fairness, I have been high on Rubio for sometime and he's been at the top of my wish list. So, for that, I may have a skewed view.

Regardless of that fact though, I'd be shocked if they help on to the 2018 1st past July.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:31 am to
But you can't trade your 2019 next year, so you are effectively costing yourself the opportunity to trade your next two first rounders, effectively giving you almost no chance to get better in February

I'd keep that pick until February unless it was for a very good player. Like say Avery Bradley. Nothing less
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5730 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:34 am to
I know you can't trade it, so that's a good point.

Didn't even have Bradley come to mind. He could slot in at PG or 2 guard depending on lineup with equally as tenacious a defender. He is far cheaper at that.

I'd do that. I wonder if we could convince Orlando to take Frazier for Payton since we have TPE.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:38 am to
I would be shocked if they added a minus shooter
Posted by BallHawk
Orlando
Member since Jul 2011
5730 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:43 am to
Me too.

Again, I value defense highly and would like for them to be a more offensive version of grit and grind. Use the high pick and roll effectively. Payton is adept at probing. He's not the passer Frazier is but he's a bigger guard and better defender. I kind of have them on par offensively. Frazier is only 4% better from 3 but gets destroyed on the defensive end.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
115495 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:44 am to
quote:

Most fans are trying to solve as many problems as possible by July 18th, which confuses me because then they turn around and call Demps short sighted

This team will go as the Big 2 do, so stay flexible. Don't throw all your chips in on the first hand and leave yourself no wiggle room down the line


That is the correct play, but I can understand fans being extremely frustrated.
Posted by Crewz
Member since Jun 2014
5093 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:54 am to
Logic should be the only factor. Emotion clouds all. Should never be a part of the equation
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
115495 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 11:59 am to


Yes, in a perfect world. People aren't robots.

Fans get emotional. A measured approach coupled with retaining Demps and Gentry won't be too well received by the "common fan". It is what it is.

Despite it possibly being the right call.
Posted by TigerinATL
Member since Feb 2005
61440 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

Emotion clouds all. Should never be a part of the equation


The Cousins ticket sales spike helps take pressure off of Demps and Gentry enough to be patient. I'm pleasantly surprised they are looking to both use the 2nd rounder and fill holes in FA rather than with a trade in the offseason. If they can stick to that it will be the 2nd offseason in a row. Last year netted them Cousins and Diallo, what will patience bring them this year?
This post was edited on 5/17/17 at 12:10 pm
Posted by NOFOX
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9933 posts
Posted on 5/17/17 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

The Cousins ticket sales spike helps take pressure off of Demps and Gentry enough to be patient.


To an extent. The team still has to be good enough to make Cousins want to re-sign. So there is a balance between saving your assets for the best deal versus making the team competitive.

They obviously think with a full offseason together that AD, Cousins, and Jrue with minor additions will be good enough for the playoffs, but they will need those 3 to stay healthy. If they are on the outside looking in at the trade deadline, I don't think Demps is going to patiently wait for the best deal. Other GM's will know he is desperate and take advantage of that.

If a good trade presents itself this summer, I would prefer to trade then because I would want a full offseason to integrate with the bigs and it eliminates the possibility of Dell making a desperate move at the deadline.

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