re: Greivis Vasquez' Elite Accomplishments

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Watching Greivis play, the guy is a decent PG that passes the ball well but has some serious defensive liabilities.

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He does have liabilities, but some posters greatly overstate it as the stats bear out. I understand that stats without context are limited, but I value them over the "eye test" of the vast majority of Hornets Talk posters. That said, aside from 5 or maybe 6 players, every single PG in the NBA has serious deficiencies.

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I think what people miss is vasquez’s lack of court vision. It bothers me. Because he racks up garbage assists by driving to the basket looking for his own shot, and if he can’t get it, dishes it out to first guy he sees. Normally Lopez in a bad position, davis at the top of the key, or aminu with seconds left on the shot clock. I want a real PG. Whether we get it through the draft or through a trade, I want a real PG. Vasquez does not, nor will he ever, have the ability to lead this team to a championship.

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I agree with every word you just said, just get ready because a certain poster is about to come in here and post ppg and apg stats and call you an idiot.

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I agree with every word you just said, just get ready because a certain poster is about to come in here and post ppg and apg stats and call you an idiot.

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Well, you agree with him, so he's starting out in poor company.

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I think what people miss is vasquez’s lack of court vision. It bothers me. Because he racks up garbage assists by driving to the basket looking for his own shot,

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So, do garbage shots created by garbage assists result in less points per basket? I fricking hate when a point guard drives and dishes. Definitely a sign of a terrible player.

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So, do garbage shots created by garbage assists result in less points per basket? I fricking hate when a point guard drives and dishes. Definitely a sign of a terrible player.

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You play to win the game not try really really hard

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im not saying vasquez or rondo is a bad passer just the numbers of their assists are exaggerated.

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How? I'm not understanding your argument. You keep saying it, but what are you basing it on? No looks? An assist is a direct measure of making a pass that allows a teammate to make a shot. It doesn't matter how it comes. Scoring is scoring and all points are weighted the same.

If anything, the total lack of talented shooters (outside of Ryno) would seem to drag his assist numbers down. Hell, we might as well say Lebron isn't an elite scorer because he's better than everyone else and thus his scoring is exaggerated. You're basically trying to discredit a fundamental stat because it doesn't jive with your predisposition.

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I'm not understanding your argument.

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What he's saying is that

1) Intentionally holding the ball like Rondo may be passing up better shot opportunities in favor of padding assists. The problem wouldn't be the assists he makes, but the assists he doesn't make because he forces shots on teammates.

2) A serious offensive threat doesn't just draw a double team on a pick and roll, he draws 3 or more defenders so your option isn't just the pick man, like CP3 with West/Chandler/Peja

Calling a regular assist a garbage assist is inaccurate, but I do get his point about a more complete player than Vasquez being able to create more opportunities, and the better playoff teams are good at shutting down options 1 and 2. If you don't have an option 3 you're screwed and Vasquez isn't the type of player that creates that many options.

its the fact that vasquez's method of getting assists is not the way an offense must run to be a contender. Now i can understand how it may work if we get a team like okc where everyone on the court can score, but does this team really have the cap or the flashy market to build a team like that? I dont know and it will be interesting to see down the road what way this team will be built.

i agree, but OKC did build through the draft, so it was a lot cheaper for them. Its going to be tough for the hornets to hit on every draft pick like OKC did. If we do i can totally see us being that kind of a team. But it is easier to build a team like that through FA. and I agree with your statement about the city of OKC. New Orleans is an amazing city and the only thing OKC can talk about is their damn riverwalk!