re: Kurt Cobain

actually yes and no if that makes sense.

It doesn't really, but it explains why I was confused.

Care to elaborate?

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Baloo, right or wrong, I'm going down with the ship on this one if I have to but you're again letting your dislike of one and love for the other distort the reality

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I like Jane's Addiction. Not as much as GnR, but I do like them. Who doesn't like Jane Says?

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That's fine but saying mid 80's Jane's was musically and aesthetically similar to hair bands like Poison is wrong. If you want to call Jane's glam b/c Perry looks liked a girl in dreadlocks instead of primped sprayed hair and they had some metal riffs here and there, I'll concede that. But the typical hair band of LA? no. GNR on the other hand, was exactly that while Jane's was considered the alternative band. You're trying to claim that little hint of punk and make them something they weren't and then totally discount the bigger influence of janes.

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Well, they weren't a hair metal band. But they were influenced by glam, as was the hair metal bands. They are far more arty band than shite like Crue or Poison, so actually, they serviced their influences a lot better. There's actually a statistical chance Marc Bolan would like Jane's Addiction, unlike almost every hair metal band. I agree they weren't a "typical" hair metal band. They weren't hair metal. Neither was G'n'R. Both played the Strip and came up in those same venues, but I thin both bands equally hated Cinderella and all that crap. They just attacked hair metal from the other side as the grunge guys. In fact, if you'll remember, Axl was a huge advocate of Nirvana in the early days, before they turned on him, too. Like I said, glam rock heavily influenced both art rock and hair metal, Jane's Addcition clearly was the first pole, as they alienated crappy hair metal audiences. Glam was actually good, remember? And not all that mainstream. So calling Jane's "alternative" doesn't refute their glam roots.

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Appetite was a hard rock album from the likes of the Stones, Zep, ACDC, Halen, which was the same type of music popular and influential with the hair bands. Only GNR didn't look the part even though they were pushed that way with welcome to the jungle video. Appetite was mainstream and the popularity was built by the hair band sound and fans.

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I think there's more Dolls influence than you'd like to admit, but I generally agree. G'n'R was destroying hair metal from within.

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Jane's wasn't a mainstream act in 87,88, or 89. Their popularity actually grew from the actual punks of LA. In 88' GNR was out touring with Motley Crue, Aerosmith, and the likes while Janes was hitting the smaller circuits with Iggy and The Ramones.

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Ummm.... you realize Iggy has huge glam roots? Iggy is proto-punk, but he was a contemporary of the glam guys, particularly Bowie. The Ramones are also 70s NYC punk, and if you remember, I've argued that American hardcore had largely moved away from that. When I refer to "punk", I was referring to hardcore, which the Ramones were not. In fact, the hardcore bands largely held the 70s NYC punk scene in contempt. It was way too arty, even the Ramones.

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Am I wrong but are you arguing that since Jane's looked more like a glam metal band, they were vs GNR didn't look like one, so they weren't? That's what it seems.

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I'm arguing no such thing. I'm arguing BOTH bands had huge glam rock influences. And I'm using glam rock to refer to stuff like 70s T Rex, not 80s guys wearing spandex. Those guys were also influenced by glam, just in the worst way possible.

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That's not how we saw them in the late '80s.

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That's b/c nobody wants to be associated with the worst music ever. That's why i defended Janes the way i did. I was pointing out that GNR was more closely associated with what he was trying to label Janes. It's not like I don't like GNR, I've been a fan of them since they I saw them open for The Cult in '87. I was just calling it like it is/was. My buddy Baloo just doesnt' care for Janes and I have a soft spot for them through the late 80's. It would be akin to me attacking Green Day. He wouldnt' just sit back and take it.

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They were something else.

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I agree and that's why they survived and kept on doing their thing.

You know what's funny is I should go back to the New York Dolls and give then another shot. When I worked at Sammy's, there was a cook there that was a Rocky Horror type guy. You know the obnoxious costume at midnight and show count type and would play the NY Dolls all the time. Needless to say, I was not a fan then. But it probably had more to do with him than the band.

Unfortunately I do not get yard passes as frequently as i use to. 7 Seconds would wear me out now. I prefer the more mellow shows now.

:oldmantake:

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You know what's funny is I should go back to the New York Dolls and give then another shot. When I worked at Sammy's, there was a cook there that was a Rocky Horror type guy. You know the obnoxious costume at midnight and show count type and would play the NY Dolls all the time. Needless to say, I was not a fan then. But it probably had more to do with him than the band.

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When it comes to the Dolls, I think you had to be there at that time to get them. I've tried my mightiest to get into them, but their recorded work just straight out mostly sucks. I imagine seeing them live at Max's Kansas City was pretty awesome though.

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after Lies when Izzy quit and Steven got canned and Axl basically made it into his own personal solo act. The Use You Illusion albums are a world away from Appetite's sleazy rawness

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Izzy is all over Use Your Illusions. My favorite tracks are him singing lead, Dust n Bones and 14 Years.