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re: The Office: is hating Jim and Pam a popular opinion?
Posted on 8/8/16 at 8:50 am to GetCocky11
Posted on 8/8/16 at 8:50 am to GetCocky11
quote:
I haven't watched season 9 yet, but it is my understanding that she fixes it and does the right thing in the end.
She finally accepts it in like the very last episode. The "Pam hate" about how she was reacting to his new job opportunity was real time, that built over the course of the whole season, and just added to the already perceived view that Jim was more committed to the relationship than Pam was. Then he sacrifices his dream job once again at the end of the season for Pam. Then in the season finale, Pam finally realizes that she's being a bitch, and finally pushes him to follow his dream.
quote:
I mean, do people hate Coach Eric Taylor when he pretty much did the same thing when Tami Taylor had that job offer in Philadelphia?
Coach Taylor not wanting to move from Texas, where his life's carrier was centered, to Philly is a little different than Pam not wanting to move from Scranton PA to Philly PA (even though she's not really doing her dream job in Scranton).
This post was edited on 8/8/16 at 8:52 am
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Posted on 8/8/16 at 8:52 am to GetCocky11
I'm late to jump in here but my thoughts have already been shared by others.
I don't think people necessarily hated Jim and Pam the people, it was just they became far, far less funny. For years and years we had the whole will they/won't they dynamic which was awesome. When they finally became a couple, we all cheered. Then they got engaged, yay! So then they get married, then they have kids. At that point their arcs don't offer near as much intrigue.
I don't think people necessarily hated Jim and Pam the people, it was just they became far, far less funny. For years and years we had the whole will they/won't they dynamic which was awesome. When they finally became a couple, we all cheered. Then they got engaged, yay! So then they get married, then they have kids. At that point their arcs don't offer near as much intrigue.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 8:58 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
Then they got engaged, yay! So then they get married, then they have kids. At that point their arcs don't offer near as much intrigue.
Sounds like real life for most married people.
This post was edited on 8/8/16 at 8:59 am
Posted on 8/8/16 at 8:59 am to GetCocky11
They both suck.
Pam is often an unrelenting bitch. She's brutally stupid when dating Roy and then watching Jim date Karen. She gets a little better after her and Jim start dating, but then she gets to be an insanely selfish bitch Especially when the sports agency starts up. Jim supported her throughout her bullshite new York art school phase and she doesn't support him for shite.
Then you throw in the whole weird affair with the mic guy.
Jim is a worthless piece of shite of a husband and father. He constantly and consistently turns down promotions and raises and advancement to remain an average salesmen at a dieing company.
They really are a true to life middle class American love story. I think the realism scared people.
And it's funny to have this discussion mixed gender. Because most guys agree with Jim and most women agree with Pam.
Pam is often an unrelenting bitch. She's brutally stupid when dating Roy and then watching Jim date Karen. She gets a little better after her and Jim start dating, but then she gets to be an insanely selfish bitch Especially when the sports agency starts up. Jim supported her throughout her bullshite new York art school phase and she doesn't support him for shite.
Then you throw in the whole weird affair with the mic guy.
Jim is a worthless piece of shite of a husband and father. He constantly and consistently turns down promotions and raises and advancement to remain an average salesmen at a dieing company.
They really are a true to life middle class American love story. I think the realism scared people.
And it's funny to have this discussion mixed gender. Because most guys agree with Jim and most women agree with Pam.
This post was edited on 8/8/16 at 9:05 am
Posted on 8/8/16 at 9:05 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
I don't think people necessarily hated Jim and Pam the people, it was just they became far, far less funny. For years and years we had the whole will they/won't they dynamic which was awesome. When they finally became a couple, we all cheered. Then they got engaged, yay! So then they get married, then they have kids. At that point their arcs don't offer near as much intrigue.
when they got together, it ruined a lot of the dynamic of the series
i get that it's an American show so they had to make it go on as long as possible and couldn't have a ross/rachel situation, but i think the desire for such a long series is the real issue. this kills a lot of American TV shows that would be served much better with 4-5 seasons and an ending
Posted on 8/8/16 at 9:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it ruined a lot of the dynamic of the series
Maybe that's the best way to put it. I always thought towards the end of Season 4 it turned into the Jim & Pam Show, not The Office. Sure there were some good episodes after season 4, and some hilarious moments. But nearly every episode hit on the Jim & Pam arc, and I lost interest.
I'm guessing the producers had some research that showed the first few seasons weren't doing well with female viewers, so they had to develop Jim & Pam's love story to attract more female viewers. I have no evidence to back this up, just my theory.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 9:16 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
when they got together, it ruined a lot of the dynamic of the series
i get that it's an American show so they had to make it go on as long as possible and couldn't have a ross/rachel situation, but i think the desire for such a long series is the real issue. this kills a lot of American TV shows that would be served much better with 4-5 seasons and an ending
Very fair criticism. The show should have ended at season 7, but it probably could have ended a season or two prior.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 9:51 am to Wayne Campbell
quote:boom
That's a pretty unfair criticism of the character. Jim and Pam weren't married when Pam went to art school, and they certainly didn't have two small children.
Jim was very selfish in every decision regarding Athlead. He joined in the company after he and Pam had already discussed it and he agreed not to. He invested all of their savings when it was certainly unclear if he needed to. And he was living the bachelor life in Philly while Pam was at home working a full time job and raising two children.
But yeah, Pam was the selfish bitch in that scenario
Posted on 8/8/16 at 9:59 am to GetCocky11
I wish it was still on. Even at its worst, the show blows away most shows on now. They could have gone another decade and I would have loved it. I liked the new characters they introduced and could have done more to develop them, if they wanted. The Andy stuff was strange and I think that killed the show, plus alot of them wanted to leave. I bet most of them regret it now..
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:02 am to GetCocky11
I just never liked how the dynamic between Jim and Pam shifted after she started working in sales. It gets worse once Jim begins his side project. It's understandable why Pam gets frustrated, but the way it played out was aggravating.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:25 am to GetCocky11
It takes a while, but their relationship eventually moves into the Uncanny Valley. It slides the scale from a fairy tale (fake) to actual romance to a real marriage and your empathy goes up and down right along with it.
When you reach near the end of the show it dawns on you how unlikely their relationship was in the first place. In the real world, Pam would probably have been married to Roy (Because a male, who relates with Jim, would never get the girl) and Jim would have found a better hookup (Because a male who finds another hookup would have pursued said hookup in place of a girl he could never have).
Tie this in with the two of them fighting when our empathy is at our lowest and the comedy goes downhill, and to the viewer the relationship is now something to be hated.
When you get to the end and it appears they're cheating, you don't care because you've lost the immersion and are 99% certain the show writers are playing this for an audience. That's when it's dawned on you it's not real, it's a show, and your empathy goes back up.
When you reach near the end of the show it dawns on you how unlikely their relationship was in the first place. In the real world, Pam would probably have been married to Roy (Because a male, who relates with Jim, would never get the girl) and Jim would have found a better hookup (Because a male who finds another hookup would have pursued said hookup in place of a girl he could never have).
Tie this in with the two of them fighting when our empathy is at our lowest and the comedy goes downhill, and to the viewer the relationship is now something to be hated.
When you get to the end and it appears they're cheating, you don't care because you've lost the immersion and are 99% certain the show writers are playing this for an audience. That's when it's dawned on you it's not real, it's a show, and your empathy goes back up.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:29 am to The Spleen
quote:
Maybe that's the best way to put it. I always thought towards the end of Season 4 it turned into the Jim & Pam Show, not The Office. Sure
I'm currently rewatching and just started season 6.
This is definitely true in part. Especially when Pam got pregnant. There were like 5 episodes that season dedicated entirely to her pregnancy. Like the office became a backdrop to Jim and Pam and it got really annoying. The little bits of the office here and there were great but that story line got tiresome..
I think the writers got so rooted in Jim and Pam they either refused to or forgot to advance and play with other characters.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:32 am to brmark70816
quote:
They could have gone another decade and I would have loved it. I liked the new characters they introduced and could have done more to develop them, if they wanted
They could've made a cast change spin off and I'd have kept watching.
Make Dwight regional manager, Jim and Pam leave, bring in some new talent and just start the show over.
I agree that most of the time it's bad moments were better than any recent network TV, with the exception of that British chick. Her entire character and story line was unwatchable garbage.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:32 am to GetCocky11
Darrell is who I was happiest for. Started at the bottom now he here.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:39 am to Breesus
quote:
with the exception of that British chick. Her entire character and story line was unwatchable garbage.
Is she around until the end of the series? She is horrible so far. Such a shame.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:40 am to Wayne Campbell
quote:
That's a pretty unfair criticism of the character. Jim and Pam weren't married when Pam went to art school, and they certainly didn't have two small children.
Jim was very selfish in every decision regarding Athlead. He joined in the company after he and Pam had already discussed it and he agreed not to. He invested all of their savings when it was certainly unclear if he needed to. And he was living the bachelor life in Philly while Pam was at home working a full time job and raising two children.
But yeah, Pam was the selfish bitch in that scenario.
That's a gross over-simplification of their history though. After stringing him along for years she waits to tell him how she feels when he was in a relationship. He supported her decision to leave for art school, didn't say a word when she left her job to join the Michael Scott paper company (months before there wedding), and then forgave her near infedility with the cameraman.
Jim consistently lifted Pam out the gutter and she proceeded to act like a bitch the one time she had to sacrifice for him. His "selfishness" with Athlead was in attempting to pursue success in a dream career for himself that would set up their family for life, which it did. She did technically redeem herself at the end, but only after Jim had sold his shares of the company and once again proved he was willing to put her above his needs.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:45 am to GetCocky11
Jim and Pam were doomed from the start. I'm guessing that by now they've split up.
Any relationship built on one partner bird-dogging the other while that other partner is engaged to a third party is pretty fricked up.
Any relationship built on one partner bird-dogging the other while that other partner is engaged to a third party is pretty fricked up.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:48 am to Fewer Kilometers
quote:
Any relationship built on one partner bird-dogging the other while that other partner is engaged to a third party is pretty fricked up.
Do people have an issue with how their relationship started? I don't.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 10:56 am to GetCocky11
quote:
Do people have an issue with how their relationship started?
I don't think we as viewers of the show really do, but if it wasn't a show and you just knew 2 people IRL that started like that it would likely raise some red flags.
-girl is engaged to a dude for like 4 years with no date on the horizon
-guy constantly and blatnatly flirts with her, all the time, all day everyday, in the same building as the fiance
-girl somewhat rejects the advances but still flirts hardcore back. They even have little running inside jokes, exchange very personal gifts among each other, etc. Girl has told her mom all about new guy.
-They end up kissing (while engaged). Girl denies advance, but very confused
-guy moves on to another girl (yet another one in the office, that's not related just felt like throwing it in). Original girl is not with original guy. Now jealous and confesses in front of whole office (do these people not have friends outside of work?) that she left first guy for 2nd guy
In real life, it would just seem there are a lot of odd things about how their relationship officially started. We as viewers can love it because it's a show and it's what we all wanted but if it was real life, I can sure tell you Roy wouldn't have been all that pumped.
Posted on 8/8/16 at 11:06 am to Breesus
quote:
This is definitely true in part. Especially when Pam got pregnant.
This part is what I actually thought this thread would be about. When Jim and Pam got together, they lost their flaws and became too good for everyone. In the beginning, Pam could get ribbed for being engaged for 4 years. Jim could be ribbed for obviously going after Pam and having a tough time with women.
I noticed their "shite don't stink" attitude when Pam first got pregnant. They got in front of the whole office and started telling people what food they should stop eating and what perfume to stop wearing. I thought it was pretty ridiculous. From then on, they just seemed to act like the king and queen of the office.
I still loved their story, and this is really just a small complaint, but midway through the show, their attitude started to bother me.
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