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re: Tarantino Weighs in on the abundance of Superhero movies in Hollywood, MCU.....
Posted on 8/25/15 at 6:01 pm to RLDSC FAN
Posted on 8/25/15 at 6:01 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
Isn't it at about $150 million domestically?
It's at $165m domestic once the numbers for today come in.
It has a decent chance of passing both Captain America: The First Avenger ($176.6) and Thor ($181m) domestically.
It's currently at $361.4m world wide and still hasn't opened in China or South Korea both of which turn out in big numbers for Marvel flicks. It's going to pass the worldwide total for CA:TFA ($370.6m) this weekend and it might also pass Thor ($449.3). That is a huge win for Marvel as most analysts were predicting this would be their first bomb. (technically Incredible Hulk should earn that designation though Paramount didn't have their shite together for the international release so its apples to oranges)
Remember, this is Ant-Man we are talking about. He isn't even a B level Marvel property.
For comparison sake, here is the MCU vs the Fox XMen films
Depending on how Ant Man does in China it might actually be more successful than every single X film other than Days of Future Past.
To be perfectly honest, a good chunk of DAFP's success over there was b/c they cast an extremely popular Chinese actress as the mutant Blink.
This post was edited on 8/25/15 at 6:19 pm
1
Posted on 8/25/15 at 6:16 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Just playing devil's advocate here. Action Movies from 1985
Rambo: First Blood Part II
Commando
Missing in Action 2
Remo Williams
Death Wish 3
American Ninja
The Last Dragon
Police Story
Runaway Train
Gymkata
Code of SIlence
Heart of Dragon
Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome
How many of those are either A) Military B) Cops C) Street Level thuggery?
The only outlier is really Mad Max, and most of them are nearly the same exact story with different costumes. We won't reach that level of saturation of Superhero films ever.
Who said 80's action movies didn't reach a point of over saturation? I believe you argued in the past that Die Hard (which came out in 1988) kind of re-defined the action hero as kind of an everyman (though he was a cop) from the military heavy examples like those from 1985 you listed above. The shift of action movies from cop/spy/military to more super hero's over time think indicates that there there was over saturation at some point.
quote:
If Ant-Man is any indication, not yet.
a) i asked maybe
b) did that do as well as projected? On another note, it seems like the comic "fanboys" for lack of a better term, are hyper-sensitive to criticism of the genre. On the other hand there seem to be people that just gratuitously bash any comic or superhero movie in general. The whole DC vs Marvel dynamic is fascinating and bizarre to me. As i said, I've really liked some comic movies (The Nolan trilogy, both Thors, Cap2) and didn't like others. I don't really like the whole universe idea, i didn't really like the Avengers, i haven't seen the 2nd one and I'm not really looking forward to the Superman vs Batman or this Cap3 Civil War, but we'll how they look when they come out.
This post was edited on 8/25/15 at 6:24 pm
Posted on 8/25/15 at 6:21 pm to Dr RC
quote:
Remember, this is Ant-Man we are talking about.
When i think of Antman, i think of Garrett Morris on SNL
when i first saw that sketch i thought Antman was something SNL made up
Posted on 8/25/15 at 6:35 pm to Scoob
quote:
I've NOT wanted to see them VERSUS each other. It's pointless; Superman would kill Batman in the blink of an eye if he was the aggressor, so Batman has to be the guy bringing the fight. L
Completely not true. There are literally thousands of batman/superman comics out there. The unfortunate part is that most people have read very few Batman comics and their entire interpretation of the character is based off of the movies.
Batman is a Stark level genius detective with just as much money. This is often lost on most people.
This post was edited on 8/25/15 at 6:37 pm
Posted on 8/25/15 at 7:24 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
Who said 80's action movies didn't reach a point of over saturation? I believe you argued in the past that Die Hard (which came out in 1988) kind of re-defined the action hero as kind of an everyman (though he was a cop) from the military heavy examples like those from 1985 you listed above. The shift of action movies from cop/spy/military to more super hero's over time think indicates that there there was over saturation at some point.
Because I don't really think "oversaturation" exists in film. Tastes change, culture accepts different realities and films follow suit. Culture gets bored of everything all the time for no particular reason, I don't think, particularly for movies, that it has to do with too much of one thing.
I wasn't trying to start an argument, just drop in a list for reference. We had 4 superhero movies in 2015. 4. That really isn't even near oversaturation.
quote:
a) i asked maybe
Like I said, debate not necessary. Sorry it came out that way.
quote:
b) did that do as well as projected?
So far, better. Ant-Man made as much as Captain America while being a C-Level hero, and not seen as cool as nearly any other hero, and not building directly into an Avengers film.
quote:
On another note, it seems like the comic "fanboys" for lack of a better term, are hyper-sensitive to criticism of the genre.
Well, it's a discussion board, people can either discuss, or.... ? I don't know what else people would do here.
(And I don't know if you were referring to this discussion or not, so I'll refrain from responding to that idea directly.) quote:
On the other hand there seem to be people that just gratuitously bash any comic or superhero movie in general.
Which kind of points to the above. This is true, which makes some people ultra-defensive. That will always be the case.
quote:
he whole DC vs Marvel dynamic is fascinating and bizarre to me. As i said, I've really liked some comic movies (The Nolan trilogy, both Thors, Cap2) and didn't like others. I don't really like the whole universe idea, i didn't really like the Avengers, i haven't seen the 2nd one and I'm not really looking forward to the Superman vs Batman or this Cap3 Civil War, but we'll how they look when they come out.
Well that battle is decades old, hence the bizzareness. I mean, there are whol board dedicated to heroes fighting heroes. Even those things, I just don't get. Our thread was fun, but people take that stuff seriously.
It's nuts.Posted on 8/25/15 at 8:47 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Because I don't really think "oversaturation" exists in film. Tastes change, culture accepts different realities and films follow suit. Culture gets bored of everything all the time for no particular reason, I don't think, particularly for movies, that it has to do with too much of one thing.
I wasn't trying to start an argument, just drop in a list for reference. We had 4 superhero movies in 2015. 4. That really isn't even near oversaturation.
I took as furthering the discussion. Though I think you are saying what i mean as over saturation. Tastes change, people get bored and move onto something new. But if something is successful, inevitably people copy it to the point it can get old. Action movie is a broader category imo, so I would expect there would be more movies that fit that "genre" the comic book. But I would not use 1 calendar year to say something was over done or not.
quote:
Well, it's a discussion board, people can either discuss, or.... ? I don't know what else people would do here.
Which kind of points to the above. This is true, which makes some people ultra-defensive. That will always be the case.
Yeah, not matter what we are discussing (movies, music, sports) when something is unfairly attacked, supporters will get defensive. And I do think there have been times that cb movies have been unfairly attacked. Those types of arguments can mutate into something ugly and not fun quick. I like a good debate whether i'm just reading it or participating in it.
Comic book movies have been around for a while. The modern incarnation probably started with Donner's Superman: The Movie. There were 4 sequels with Reeve. Burtons Batman came out about a decade later (and it was rumored for years before that). I assume we didn't have more back then in part because of rights issues, who owned what properties. Disney buying most of the MCU and having a long range plan with the various phases was brilliant.
Posted on 8/25/15 at 9:06 pm to RonBurgundy
Frick comic book movies.
Posted on 8/25/15 at 9:23 pm to H-Town Tiger
quote:
On another note, it seems like the comic "fanboys" for lack of a better term, are hyper-sensitive to criticism of the genre. On the other hand there seem to be people that just gratuitously bash any comic or superhero movie in general. The whole DC vs Marvel dynamic is fascinating and bizarre to me. As i said, I've really liked some comic movies (The Nolan trilogy, both Thors, Cap2) and didn't like others. I don't really like the whole universe idea, i didn't really like the Avengers, i haven't seen the 2nd one and I'm not really looking forward to the Superman vs Batman or this Cap3 Civil War, but we'll how they look when they come out.
There's a lot to unpack there, but I think you're largely correct. It would be one thing if older comic book fans were more defensive, having grown up with a sneered at hobby, but I tend to feel its the younger fans who are more sensitive to any criticism of the genre, which is odd, as some of them can never remember a time comic book films weren't ascendent. Why the defensiveness if you're the dominant genre?
The DC/Marvel thing is real interesting, particularly if you know the long history of the two. DC is the older brand with more iconic characters, yet they have been trying to copy Marvel since they appeared on the scene. Which is just odd. And now they are doing the same thing in film, trying to do the connected universe thing. I find that dynamic fascinating.
I'd also take a moment to shout out to indie comics and their film progeny: A History of Violence, Ghost World, American Splendor, Art School Confidential, Scott Pilgrim, V for Vendetta, and any number of respected non-super hero films. The genre isn't as monolothic as the tights and capes crowd would have you believe.
That said, I do think the MCU is different than the rest of the genre, even DC. They have a consistent look, feel, and quality which has lead to a fairly consistent amount of success. DC films vary wildly in quality as do the Fox Marvel movies. If there is a crash due to overexposure, Marvel Studios is best set up to survive it. People keep saying their are sick of comic films, and comic book movies tend to vary wildly in success and quality, while the MCU keeps chugging along at near metronome like regularity.
Posted on 8/25/15 at 10:06 pm to Baloo
quote:
When i think of Antman, i think of Garrett Morris on SNL
when i first saw that sketch i thought Antman was something SNL made up
cameo in Ant-Man
quote:
To be perfectly honest, a good chunk of DAFP's success over there was b/c they cast an extremely popular Chinese actress as the mutant Blink.
Yeah domestically, X3 still outgrossed the DFOP...which goes to show you that Xfans will see anything.
(more on that down the road). quote:
Frick comic book movies
quote:
Patrick_Bateman
quote:
It would be one thing if older comic book fans were more defensive, having grown up with a sneered at hobby, but I tend to feel its the younger fans who are more sensitive to any criticism of the genre, which is odd, as some of them can never remember a time comic book films weren't ascendent. Why the defensiveness if you're the dominant genre?
Comics since the Marvel Age has been a outlet for those non in the mainstream. Even today in comic shops-you rarely see the "dude bro"-though there is a slight uptick and those types are usually into Supes or Bats.
I think fans are defensive of the genre and the MCU in general because the complaints is "it's all looks the same" or "too much crossover"-which is the point of all of this telling one cohesive story across the MCU or DCCU...just like what they do in comics....
most people can handle a Batman comic...but only fans like continuity.
I will say that AoU went with an approach "If you didn't watch the others don't worry about it" vibe which I thought was a mistake...but I know I can't have it exactly the way I want it.
Marvel will always be building and crossing over-it's the nature of comics...The Big Events are the payoff.
Personally I'd like to see 3 MCU movies a year-at least one new IP,one existing IP, and one that expands the overall MCU...including villain movies.
Posted on 8/25/15 at 10:55 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
cameo in Ant-Man
Words can't really express how awesome that is
Posted on 8/25/15 at 11:04 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
Marvel will always be building and crossing over-it's the nature of comics...The Big Events are the payoff.
This is when you know someone doesn't read/enjoy comics. I don't think they get how ridiculously complex comics can be with crossovers, stories, teams, etc. The MCU has actually done a really tight job of keeping it simple compared to its origins (See Thor's origin is actually a riff on multiple origins of Thor smashed together, NOT just classic, 1960s Thor as one would expect. MCU Thor actually has very little in common with the original Thor/Donald Blake.)
Spider-Man having 4 different books in the 90s? Wolverine on 4 different teams in the 2000s? Not to mention alternate dimensions and realities. I mean that's why Marvel's Secret Wars thing is kind of interesting, it's an entire critique on the past 30 years or so of comics retconning, spinning off universes and what not.
That kind of stuff IS comics.
Posted on 8/25/15 at 11:53 pm to Dire Wolf
If comic movies were more like Daredevil and less like the Avengers 2, I'd like them more. Whedon's dialogue especially the running joke of Captain America cursing was so cringe worthy and forced. Oh, and civilians actually die on Daredevil instead of an entire city being blown to pieces with no casualties. They are too dumbed down for 10 year olds.
Posted on 8/26/15 at 8:50 am to elprez00
quote:Doesn't matter how smart or wealthy Batman is, or how good his detective skills are. If Superman attacked him with the intent to kill him, Batman would be dead in an instant. Batman simply can't withstand the sheer amount of power Superman could direct at him. Supes could destroy all of Gotham as rapidly and thoroughly as an atomic strike, by grabbing a boulder or asteroid and flinging it hard enough at the city; no defense against that.
quote:
I've NOT wanted to see them VERSUS each other. It's pointless; Superman would kill Batman in the blink of an eye if he was the aggressor, so Batman has to be the guy bringing the fight. L
Completely not true. There are literally thousands of batman/superman comics out there. The unfortunate part is that most people have read very few Batman comics and their entire interpretation of the character is based off of the movies.
Batman is a Stark level genius detective with just as much money. This is often lost on most people.
Any "dossier" or plan Batman (or anyone) would have in place, would be to defend against a moderately belligerent Supes, who'd still be operating under the concept of fighting with 1 hand behind his back to not instantaneously kill people (for example, if he was instead trying to rule over the planet).
So, yes, this scenario will require Batman to be the one starting the fight.
Posted on 8/26/15 at 10:42 am to Scoob
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