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2
Posted on 12/18/14 at 5:50 pm to Cdawg
quote:Considering the other elements in this case. It isn't that simple. I'm not saying he's innocent. But it's not as open & shut as you make it sound.
Adnan is guilty. How convenient to have a memory lapse the day your ex goes missing.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 6:27 pm to Cdawg
quote:
Adnan is guilty. How convenient to have a memory lapse the day your ex goes missing
Even disregarding what we know about memory, I don't get this perspective.
You know what would be more convenient? Any kind of alibi.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 7:19 pm to buckeye_vol
The thing Don said about, "When something like this happens, you immediately think about where you were that day" really makes it hard for me to believe Adnan. Add in their "bad luck" theory, and I tend to think Adnan was involved.
That said, I don't see how he got convicted.
And that also said, if Adnan is innocent, the only reason I can think Jay is lying is fear. I don't think Jay killed Hae, but if Adnan didn't, Jay is covering up some criminal element above him (Roy or the Moore guy mentioned today).
Likeliest is Adnan but there's still a ton of holes.
That said, I don't see how he got convicted.
And that also said, if Adnan is innocent, the only reason I can think Jay is lying is fear. I don't think Jay killed Hae, but if Adnan didn't, Jay is covering up some criminal element above him (Roy or the Moore guy mentioned today).
Likeliest is Adnan but there's still a ton of holes.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 7:28 pm to Stewie Griffin
frick that podcast, waste of time
Posted on 12/18/14 at 7:29 pm to Stewie Griffin
quote:
The thing Don said about, "When something like this happens, you immediately think about where you were that day" really makes it hard for me to believe Adnan.
Although I don't think Don did it, it's easy to look back now and think this. Besides since he was the current boyfriend who she was with the night before, he probably felt more concerned.
Besides, an innocent person may or may not immediately go to an alibi, but I bet a guilty person would. If Adnan wasn't guilty, then why should he be thinking of an alibi? If he was guilty, why wouldn't he thinking up an alibi? If one is guilty and is going to tell a lie, wouldn't that person want to tell a lie that will help them the most (i.e., an alibi) especially after the considerable time that lapsed between her disappearance and her body being found?
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 7:34 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 7:41 pm to Stewie Griffin
quote:
Add in their "bad luck" theory, and I tend to think Adnan was involved.
I liked Dana offering an alternative and skeptical perspective; however, her theory, as evidence of Adnan's guilt, has some major problems.
1. The "bad luck" conclusion would support guilty just as much as innocent. Basically, if he was guilty, then making that phone call, not coming up with an alibi, and getting Jay involved was bad luck. Same with his innocence.
2. These events are not independent of one another and rely almost entirely on Jay. Basically, Jay played a hand in all of the events.
3. These unlucky events were formed around this single narrative surrounding Jay's story. They are relatively inconsequential and typical events, until you throw in Jay's story. There was not enough deduction in this case.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 7:56 pm to Stewie Griffin
quote:
the Moore guy mentioned today).
You think he is threatening Jay from the grave?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 8:08 pm to buckeye_vol
As I said earlier, I believe Adnan is guilty. There is one thing about this whole deal that fascinates me: How did a 17 year old kid that was by all accounts a normal, even great kid that had never been in any real trouble manage to be so cool and methodical in the disposal of the body and everything else the evening of the murder?
He handled business like a mob hit man and I've never been able to figure out how he kept it together like that.
He handled business like a mob hit man and I've never been able to figure out how he kept it together like that.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 8:29 pm to Scoop
quote:
As I said earlier, I believe Adnan is guilty. There is one thing about this whole deal that fascinates me: How did a 17 year old kid that was by all accounts a normal, even great kid that had never been in any real trouble manage to be so cool and methodical in the disposal of the body and everything else the evening of the murder?
He handled business like a mob hit man and I've never been able to figure out how he kept it together like that.
This is where I see some contradictions. I mean he almost expertly commits this crime. Then, rather than disposing of the body by himself, he brings in shady and unreliable Jay, who really doesn't help much at all. Why not get somebody more close and/or trustworthy? It was risky and useless, and he so impulsively brought Jay into the story; yet, he gave no indication to any other person (pretty impressive). Then, after expertly committing the crime and tricking everyone but Jay, he doesn't come up with an alibi. So he thought a better lie would be to forget, not to provide a story to support his innocence? But he could think up veiled threats to get Jay not to talk.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 10:56 pm to Oizers
quote:
Plus, the case has the markings of a premeditated murder so how lucky would Jay be to find out that Adnan offers his car and cell phone to Jay on the same day that Jay plans to kill Hae.
That is an interesting way of looking at it.
Another thing that has started to stick out more for me toward the end is motive. Maybe I am giving teenagers too much credit, but it doesn't seem like any one of the main players has a solid reason to want Hae dead. There just has to be more to it.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 11:15 pm to Oizers
quote:
Plus, the case has the markings of a premeditated murder so how lucky would Jay be to find out that Adnan offers his car and cell phone to Jay on the same day that Jay plans to kill Hae.
The only piece of evidence that it was premeditated is Jay's story that Adnan told him. Every facet of the story revolves around Jay, even though much of it has been contradicted by the other evidence (call logs not matching up), himself, (going to that overlook), or all others (Adnan's personality).
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 11:19 pm
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:04 am to buckeye_vol
True, which is why I always thought it was an interesting choice to say Adnan told him the day before or morning of (depending on which Jay interview). If he was trying to minimize his involvement, I would think he would tell the cops the first he heard of it was the trunk pop moment.
Also, since Cathy was used as a judge (at least on the podcast) of Jay and Adnan's demeanor, I would think Patrick and Phil would be interesting to hear from. They were called likely minutes after the murder.
Also, since Cathy was used as a judge (at least on the podcast) of Jay and Adnan's demeanor, I would think Patrick and Phil would be interesting to hear from. They were called likely minutes after the murder.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 12:11 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
Every facet of the story revolves around Jay
And Jay's story is nonsense.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 4:02 am to Big Scrub TX
Still can't believe they didn't get into the Roy theory. Knowing everything we know and Jay and Adnan, I just don't buy that it's Adnan that Jay is so afraid of.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 7:26 am to ligerbait
Don just happened to be pulling a shift at his moms store the day of the murder, this story has a never ending string of WTF's. Plus is lens crafter employee not the perfect serial killer job. 
Posted on 12/19/14 at 7:27 am to barry
I'm not saying Adnan is innocent but it's crazy he got convicted on this weak arse case.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 8:06 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
The thing Don said about, "When something like this happens, you immediately think about where you were that day" really makes it hard for me to believe Adnan
I sort of agree, but when it first went down it was just a missing person case, and Adnan wasn't the only one that didn't think it was that big of a deal. In fact, Don was the only one that took the time to say he immediately thought about where he was that day. He was a little older though and thus a little less naive. I keep putting myself back in high school and trying to remember how dumb and naive I was, and a lot of Adnan's and his classmate's reactions at the time don't seem that unusual.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 8:27 am to barry
quote:
Don just happened to be pulling a shift at his moms store the day of the murder, this story has a never ending string of WTF's. Plus is lens crafter employee not the perfect serial killer job.
I think Don's part was important.
1. It shows another set of events, that were normal and inconsequential, but could have been easily construed to fit a narrative against him.
2. He reinforced that Adnan was a typical 17 year old. That doesn't rule out murder, but the manipulating. sociopathic killer seems unlikely.
3. He highlighted the biased, and borderline unethical, approach the DA took to the case by yelling at Don for not making Adnan look creepy. That seems pretty telling that his case wasn't that strong.
Posted on 12/19/14 at 8:34 am to Kayhill Brown
There was an ending, just not the one I wanted. I wanted something to 100% confirm guilty or innocent. What the ending confirmed was 100% reasonable doubt and proof that those jurors put someone away for life without proof that he was guilty.
Jay and Jenn are lying more than anyone else in this story but I can't understand why and who they are protecting. How does someone change their story that many times and get away with it? At least Adnan has always maintained the same story. He loaned Jay his phone and car to go get Steph a birthday present. he went back to school, he thinks he was at track, he thinks jay picked him up to smoke, he thinks he was dropped off at the mosque, the end. Nothing odd about the day to him.
Jay and Jenn are lying more than anyone else in this story but I can't understand why and who they are protecting. How does someone change their story that many times and get away with it? At least Adnan has always maintained the same story. He loaned Jay his phone and car to go get Steph a birthday present. he went back to school, he thinks he was at track, he thinks jay picked him up to smoke, he thinks he was dropped off at the mosque, the end. Nothing odd about the day to him.
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