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re: Official Comic Book Hero Tournament (Round III) Results In!
Posted on 4/1/14 at 5:11 pm to Freauxzen
Posted on 4/1/14 at 5:11 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Agree and disagree. For some of those guys it's like leaving Superman out. As much as we wanted to do it, it just didn't feel right (and same for Batman, for different reasons, but instead of leaving him out, we really rigged the tournament away from his strengths.).
agree with respect to superman being boring and overpowered. he is beatable as evidenced by the large number of characters that have beaten him.
is there an arbitrary cut off where we stop including people because they are too powerful? absolutely. Is Superman right up against that line? absolutely. And FWIW we probably bent the rules to keep him and the flash in the competition
Batman annoys me. He's eminently entertaining as the Dark Knight and belongs in the universe where he takes on characters like the Joker, Riddler, Bane, etc. But he really has no place next to the more powerful characters of the Justice League. Like someone said in an earlier thread (maybe it was Scruffy) the writers for Batman have tried to make his super power the ability to take down other super heros... which isn't a super power and doesn't make any damn sense.
1
Posted on 4/1/14 at 5:16 pm to molsusports
quote:
Batman annoys me. He's eminently entertaining as the Dark Knight and belongs in the universe where he takes on characters like the Joker, Riddler, Bane, etc. But he really has no place next to the more powerful characters of the Justice League. Like someone said in an earlier thread (maybe it was Scruffy) the writers for Batman have tried to make his super power the ability to take down other super heros... which isn't a super power and doesn't make any damn sense
+1
Batman is the worlds greatest detective, not the crap that they tried to turn him into. FWIW he is about the only DC hero I like, the rest are practically gods and are boring.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 5:17 pm to molsusports
quote:
flash at the level of being able to time travel and travel at unlimited speed is essentially a god tier character who should beat anyone. but we have him in the tournament because he's a staple of people's comic book childhood and the super hero pantheon we're most familiar with.
He's been depicted as this strong for a long while now. A very good argument can be made he is the most powerful hero in the justice league. He's not just a "speedster".
The point is, at some point, you have to use a character as written. We are doing that with Superman and everyone is complaining. Well, here's the solution: Have Flash go at Superman for real and Superman can lose.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 5:38 pm to bigpetedatiga
Match 1. Firestorm
Match 2. Hellboy
Match 3. Black Bolt
Match 4. Ghost Rider
Match 5. Power Girl
Match 6. Flash
Match 7. Ms Marvel
Match 8. Thor
Match 2. Hellboy
Match 3. Black Bolt
Match 4. Ghost Rider
Match 5. Power Girl
Match 6. Flash
Match 7. Ms Marvel
Match 8. Thor
Posted on 4/1/14 at 5:49 pm to theunknownknight
The tournament is now starting to unravel because people just keep elivating one hero. There's not so much debate between a fight, more claims of how godly a hero can be. It's not DCs fault. You can do this with almost any hero. Look how unbeatable ms marvel seems (yet she clawed her way up? Really against cap atom?)
This worked better when we stuck to the fight and not just the hero. The Ms Marvel/GL debate was going in a good direction. Then randoms stuck on Superman and Deadpool came in.
This worked better when we stuck to the fight and not just the hero. The Ms Marvel/GL debate was going in a good direction. Then randoms stuck on Superman and Deadpool came in.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 5:56 pm to BlacknGold
quote:
The tournament is now starting to unravel because people just keep elivating one hero. There's not so much debate between a fight, more claims of how godly a hero can be.
quote:
It's not DCs fault.
Beetle and Raven/Zatanna were the first notions. I said the same thing during the Beetle/Jean Round. And Swamp v Iron Man, like wtf.
But that's precisely the point. If you argue about Zatanna and Superman and Blue Beetle coming up with any defense against some power or attack, you have to keep elevating. Either that or they win and tournament over.
By creating characters with no real boundaries, except theoretical, you have to get to these really weird areas of melting Iceman to get huffed by Superman and incapacitating him. And that didn't even work. It sort of is DC's fault. On one hand you have a character who apparently can utter any word and create something (uhhh WTF?), I mean you have to get creative to beat that.
Well that and we knew enough to leave out Legion, Scarlet Witch, Franklin, etc. but not enough to leave out Blue Beetle, Zatanna, etc.
quote:
You can do this with almost any hero. Look how unbeatable ms marvel seems (yet she clawed her way up? Really against cap atom?)
Favorable matchups more than anything.
quote:
This worked better when we stuck to the fight and not just the hero. The Ms Marvel/GL debate was going in a good direction. Then randoms stuck on Superman and Deadpool came in.
Probably so.
This post was edited on 4/1/14 at 5:58 pm
Posted on 4/1/14 at 6:10 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Beetle and Raven/Zatanna were the first notions. I said the same thing during the Beetle/Jean Round.
2 out of those 3 are no longer even in the tournament.
quote:
melting Iceman to get huffed by Superman and incapacitating him
that was just a bad match up. now Superman is basically fighting himself but a little weaker. again, poor match up. there are plenty of heroes that can beat Superman. it just hasnt been matched that way yet.
as was mentioned in general about villains, they usually outmatch or are the opposite of the heroes. DC villains are very powerful as well. DC and Marvel are just on two different scales. i guess its apparent the two universes dont sync up very well powerwise
Posted on 4/1/14 at 6:19 pm to BlacknGold
quote:
2 out of those 3 are no longer even in the tournament.
Doesn't mean they didn't affect the frame of the tournament. They were important to how the discussion evolved.
So if you're worried about the tournament falling apart, it isn't because of this Round alone.
quote:
that was just a bad match up. now Superman is basically fighting himself but a little weaker. again, poor match up. there are plenty of heroes that can beat Superman. it just hasnt been matched that way yet.
There were lots of things that we could have decided differently. Hindsight being 20/20 and all.
quote:
they usually outmatch or are the opposite of the heroes. DC villains are very powerful as well.
Agreed. Villains are going to be a whole different beast. I'm not sure if it will work. I guess we go in gun blazing on this one.
quote:
DC and Marvel are just on two different scales. i guess its apparent the two universes dont sync up very well powerwise
Because Marvel is willing to play with the scale of power a little bit more. I mean, there's no POINT for Superman to have half of the powers he does. But they create powers just so he can overcome particular parts of his narrative. I think he's a different kind of plot device than Batman, but still just a plot device. Marvel heroes...there are far more really lame ones (Jubilee! Dazzler! etc.), but the ones they get right, they get right. They might be REALLY powerful, but they have major, crippling weaknesses, see Hulk and Iceman for instance.
And while people see Superman as this all powerful thing, even though he spent the 40's and 50's and part of the 60's as mostly a super strong flier guy with heat vision for the most part, they view Iceman as throwing snowballs (for example, Iceman supporters got close on that one though). Or Thor as just a guy with some strength and hammer. So how we compare becomes lopsided. It's been a fun tournament regardless and I think we work through all this, I think there might be some surprises left.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 6:29 pm to bigpetedatiga
Round III
Match #1
place #1: Firestorm
Match #2
place #1: Shazam
Match #3
place #1: Wonder Woman
Match #4
place #2: Ghost Rider
Match #5
place #1: Superman
Match #6
place #1: Spider-Man
Match #7
place #2: Green Latern (Hal Jordan)
Match #8
place #1: Jean Grey
Match #1
place #1: Firestorm
Match #2
place #1: Shazam
Match #3
place #1: Wonder Woman
Match #4
place #2: Ghost Rider
Match #5
place #1: Superman
Match #6
place #1: Spider-Man
Match #7
place #2: Green Latern (Hal Jordan)
Match #8
place #1: Jean Grey
Posted on 4/1/14 at 6:36 pm to Freauxzen
when was the last time you really read a DC comic? your beef with marvel stereotypes works the same way with DC ones.
DC has made a pretty big effort to not make their characters as godly as they were in the 90s. things got out of hand, but that was mostly true for comics as a whole in the 90s. look at the x-men stories during that period.
i think youd be surprised with Superman now.
DC has made a pretty big effort to not make their characters as godly as they were in the 90s. things got out of hand, but that was mostly true for comics as a whole in the 90s. look at the x-men stories during that period.
i think youd be surprised with Superman now.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 7:55 pm to BlacknGold
quote:
This worked better when we stuck to the fight and not just the hero. The Ms Marvel/GL debate was going in a good direction. Then randoms stuck on Superman and Deadpool came in.
I'm assuming you are talking about me with the deadpool comment. I recall stating my feelings and helping the thread by talking more about black bolt and deadpool because black bolt doesn't seem like a person that can overcome some of these people that he faced.
Get off your pedestal and allow the "randoms" to provide new insight.
All these fights are fake and can't happen. The only way to have evidence is to compare to others and debate power limitation.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 7:58 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
I remember seeing that flash can go at or around the speed of light. IIRC superman and flash raced and tied more than once. If they travel at the speed of light then the force they create is the most of any hero. Since flash can't fly superman has the advantage simply because he gets off the ground.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 7:59 pm to bigpetedatiga
quote:
Match #1
place #1: Firestorm
place #2:
Match #2
place #1: Shazam
place #2:
Match #3
place #1:
place #2: Black Bolt
Match #4
place #1: Hulk (Planet Hulk)
place #2:
Match #5
place #1: Superman
place #2:
Match #6
place #1:
place #2: Flash (Barry Allen)
Match #7
place #1:
place #2: Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)
Match #8
place #1:
place #2: Thor
Posted on 4/1/14 at 8:02 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:Flash is faster than Superman.
I remember seeing that flash can go at or around the speed of light. IIRC superman and flash raced and tied more than once. If they travel at the speed of light then the force they create is the most of any hero. Since flash can't fly superman has the advantage simply because he gets off the ground.
As for moving at the speed of light, Flash can move so quickly that he can affect the flow of time.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 8:02 pm to bigpetedatiga
Match #1
place #1:
place #2: Zatana
Match #2
place #1:
place #2: Hellboy
Match #3
place #1:
place #2: Black Bolt
Match #4
place #1: Hulk (Planet Hulk)
place #2:
Match #5
place #1: Superman
place #2:
Match #6
place #1:
place #2: Flash (Barry Allen)
Match #7
place #1:
place #2: Green Latern (Hal Jordan)
Match #8
place #1:
place #2: Thor
place #1:
place #2: Zatana
Match #2
place #1:
place #2: Hellboy
Match #3
place #1:
place #2: Black Bolt
Match #4
place #1: Hulk (Planet Hulk)
place #2:
Match #5
place #1: Superman
place #2:
Match #6
place #1:
place #2: Flash (Barry Allen)
Match #7
place #1:
place #2: Green Latern (Hal Jordan)
Match #8
place #1:
place #2: Thor
Posted on 4/1/14 at 8:13 pm to Scruffy
[Quote] Flash can move so quickly that he can affect the flow of time.[/quote]
Since the laws of physics and time bend a little at that speed then I am assuming he can.
If superman is close to the speed of Light and the friction of the ground and air are effecting him, flying will be faster getting him even closer.
Since the laws of physics and time bend a little at that speed then I am assuming he can.
If superman is close to the speed of Light and the friction of the ground and air are effecting him, flying will be faster getting him even closer.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 9:02 pm to Hu_Flung_Pu
quote:
If superman is close to the speed of Light and the friction of the ground and air are effecting him, flying will be faster getting him even closer.
I think this was the reasoning one time as to why Superman lost to Flash in a race, well you know Superman is not accustomed to running long distances , yeah I'm sure Superman has to exercise, probably goes to Planet Fitness.
Back on topic, could Black Bolt take Wonder Woman out with a shout? Her durability is up there with Superman right?
Posted on 4/1/14 at 9:17 pm to ZacAttack
quote:
I think this was the reasoning one time as to why Superman lost to Flash in a race, well you know Superman is not accustomed to running long distances , yeah I'm sure Superman has to exercise, probably goes to Planet Fitness.
Superman flew in that race iirc.
Also, Flash can run faster than the speed of light when he MUST. The laws of physics basically bend to him.
At FULL power Superman couldn't touch Flash. The ramifications of Flash unleashing that power could be deadly to everyone, that's why he doesn't do so very often.
This post was edited on 4/1/14 at 9:20 pm
Posted on 4/1/14 at 9:23 pm to theunknownknight
You may disagree but we have to have some degree of limitation. Faster than the speed of light is going too far 
I recall he was on the ground.
I'll post tomorrow about current battles. I have already picked mine but I can revisit and review.
I recall he was on the ground.
I'll post tomorrow about current battles. I have already picked mine but I can revisit and review.
This post was edited on 4/1/14 at 9:24 pm
Posted on 4/1/14 at 9:23 pm to theunknownknight
but if the flash is running that fast, wouldnt he need to be circling the globe basically over and over? how would that work in the "battle arena?"
also, if hes moving that fast, is he really going to be able to attack someone "standing still?" your accuracy has to be completely gone at that point.
also, if hes moving that fast, is he really going to be able to attack someone "standing still?" your accuracy has to be completely gone at that point.
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