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Message
re: Doomsday Will Be A Major Villain In Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice
Posted on 5/17/15 at 10:53 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 5/17/15 at 10:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but the avengers and the MCU is facing some major issues right now...and it made AOU pretty mediocre-bad
the MCU is absolutely destroying any threat of an actual villain or danger within each movie. it's getting old
AOU tried to hard to be light-heated and joking that it came off as completely lame, stupid, and wasteful
did anybody actually give half of a frick during the final third of AOU? it was stupid jokes and non-dangerous threats. it was boring, lifeless, lame, and just not entertaining. hell, they were so pussy they let somebody die...a somebody who had been introduced 90 minutes earlier and has no bearing on anything. the MCU is the anti-TNT (as it does not know drama)
I have to agree, although I do stand by the fact that the people at Marvel have a much firmer grasp on what their universe is all about and what they're building up to. This may sound hypocritical as frick coming from a guy who rips Man of Steel for being too violent, but Age of Ultron should have been darker and hundreds of millions should have been killed. Ultron is the most threatening and frightening of the Avengers villains, and while I appreciated his sense of humor at times, they went way too over-the-top with it at some points. Ultron is a super violent villain and even more ruthless than Zod and far more intelligent. I think it would have been a nice touch for instance that after the Avengers steal his Vision body that he would have massacred the city they were in to show this guy isn't fricking around and more than has the means to wipe out humanity as a whole.
Plus I think it's a really dumb idea for Cap and Iron Man to go out on somewhat good terms going into Civil War. Ultron is the perfect villain to put them on opposing sides, but they really didn't capitalize on that.
This post was edited on 5/17/15 at 10:55 am
1
Posted on 5/17/15 at 10:53 am to OMLandshark
quote:
The Joker was a fun villain
Yeah...there's nothing more fun than watching a psychopath rip open a gangster's face with a knife, stick a pencil through another's eye, laugh with glee as he's killing a hostage and recording it like a snuff film, and numerous other atrocities that we will not get into because the list is so long. I laughed at some of the stuff he did. But it was one of those why-am-I-laugh-this-is-effed-up kind of laughs.
quote:
He's an optimistic Idealist who sees the best in humanity and represents the best of it as well.
But does he have to start out that way? This is a cinematic universe that will contain multiple, interlocking stories. Have you ever heard of a character arc?
Posted on 5/17/15 at 11:00 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this is the lamest argument on the internet, and it's fricking hilarious in light of how the MCU went "all in" during AOU, to disastrous results. when facing an impotent, undeveloped enemy whom the audience has no fear, nothing adds tension to this battle like focusing the fight on saving civilians. that's some real excitement, there
Age of Ultron wasn't a home run or anything, but I do appreciate when a character like Captain America goes out of his way to save any innocents he can. It's clear Whedon gets the character. If Snyder got this much about Superman, then Superman would have tried to get Zod out of the city. It's not as if it was like it was in either Avengers movie where it's pretty critical to keep the fight contained and keeping the villain from doing something specific. If a line of dialog was "First I'll kill all the humans you love so much, starting with this city, and then I'll kill you", then at least that makes a bit of sense for Zod to continue to be in the city. But it's made pretty clear that Zod just wants to kill Superman as his primary objective, so spare innocents, get the hell out of there, and fight in some abandoned field miles away. You can punch him into space, so why is this difficult for him?
Posted on 5/17/15 at 11:07 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i mean he did go balls out to save humanity and had major issues with snapping zod's neck when faced with the direct threat of a family
Well, that family is mere tears in a bucket at this point, and if Superman really cared, he would have gotten Zod out of the city instead of showing off to the cameras how badass he is. What do I care about that family when hundreds of thousands have been killed? At least let the person be Lois Zod is aiming for since I have spent an hour and a half getting to know her.
quote:
i love how your arguments are just one big collection of things you've seen other people report without any individual thought
Well, they have a point. I knew there was something else tonally wrong with the movie, and then when someone points it out, I concluded they were right that this an issue.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 11:12 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Yeah...there's nothing more fun than watching a psychopath rip open a gangster's face with a knife, stick a pencil through another's eye, laugh with glee as he's killing a hostage and recording it like a snuff film, and numerous other atrocities that we will not get into because the list is so long. I laughed at some of the stuff he did. But it was one of those why-am-I-laugh-this-is-effed-up kind of laughs.
Yeah, but he's not joyless. This is a guy that really, really loves his job and it shows. If a villain can make me believe he loves what he does, then I don't think the film is joyless since he's getting joy out of every horrible thing he does. Zod is just a rage filled dick who I don't think really loves what he does. I will concede that Luthor may be a more joyful villain than Zod, since in the comics, he clearly loves what he does, but this remains to be seen.
quote:
But does he have to start out that way? This is a cinematic universe that will contain multiple, interlocking stories. Have you ever heard of a character arc?
I suppose it's possible, but I don't see why I should feel that this is going to occur anytime soon with the plot and tone of the next film.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 11:12 am to OMLandshark
yes if AOU was the crucial piece for the final 3rd of the universe, they have gone off the rails. the key issue seems to be IM3
they could have dealt with a lot of the issues in AOU in IM3, via the Mandarin. it would have been much more effective to really establish Tony's direction and he could have even basically created ultron. then contrast this wiith Cap2, which could have really establiehd the OTHER angle, in light of the whole Hydra angle.
that conflict could have exploded in AOU with a bit of the ultraviolence, as you referenced.
but the MCU has gone off the rails trying to be too cutsey and safe, so my point is you can't just dismiss DC trying to be more serious
it may work (it did with the Nolan Batman trilogy). it's just starting, so we have to see what happens. everyone was excited for Ultron a year ago and that was a bust. BvS is a year away, right? let's actually wait to see it before we pass judgment
they could have dealt with a lot of the issues in AOU in IM3, via the Mandarin. it would have been much more effective to really establish Tony's direction and he could have even basically created ultron. then contrast this wiith Cap2, which could have really establiehd the OTHER angle, in light of the whole Hydra angle.
that conflict could have exploded in AOU with a bit of the ultraviolence, as you referenced.
but the MCU has gone off the rails trying to be too cutsey and safe, so my point is you can't just dismiss DC trying to be more serious
it may work (it did with the Nolan Batman trilogy). it's just starting, so we have to see what happens. everyone was excited for Ultron a year ago and that was a bust. BvS is a year away, right? let's actually wait to see it before we pass judgment
Posted on 5/17/15 at 11:15 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Well, that family is mere tears in a bucket at this point, and if Superman really cared, he would have gotten Zod out of the city instead of showing off to the cameras how badass he is
well it was his first major battle, so let's not act like this is his entire character. that destruction is obviously a theme in the 2nd movie
he's a new character who has to learn and develop. that's how you make him interesting (unlike normal superman who is not)
quote:
What do I care about that family when hundreds of thousands have been killed?
that family put the suffering of normal people in full display, which is why it was much more emotional and effective than the cop out of the Avengers' storyline. again, this was his first major battle with a somewhat equal foe. he's going to make mistakes. that lack of focus was a mistake, and it was fully realized at that moment. hence the emotional response
Posted on 5/17/15 at 11:31 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
this is the lamest argument on the internet, and it's fricking hilarious in light of how the MCU went "all in" during AOU, to disastrous results. when facing an impotent, undeveloped enemy whom the audience has no fear, nothing adds tension to this battle like focusing the fight on saving civilians. that's some real excitement, there
+1 I found it incredibly annoying how they were going out of their way to save people. It's as if Whedon was thinking about the MOS criticisms while he was making this film. it was really distracting to me.
It's freaking comic book movie, there's going to be destruction. Since when did this become such an issue for fanboys everywhere. I completely agree that it's such a lame argument.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 12:54 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
quote:
At least B&R was fun
Does not compute
Posted on 5/17/15 at 1:08 pm to RLDSC FAN
quote:
this is the lamest argument on the internet, and it's fricking hilarious in light of how the MCU went "all in" during AOU, to disastrous results. when facing an impotent, undeveloped enemy whom the audience has no fear, nothing adds tension to this battle like focusing the fight on saving civilians. that's some real excitement, there
quote:
+1 I found it incredibly annoying how they were going out of their way to save people. It's as if Whedon was thinking about the MOS criticisms while he was making this film. it was really distracting to me.
It's freaking comic book movie, there's going to be destruction. Since when did this become such an issue for fanboys everywhere. I completely agree that it's such a lame argument.
I agree.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 1:33 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
This is a guy that really, really loves his job and it shows.
Well, it's the Joker. He's supposed to enjoy what he does.
quote:
Zod is just a rage filled dick who I don't think really loves what he does.
Kind of like Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins, Two-Face in The Dark Knight, and Bane and Talia in The Dark Knight Rises?
quote:
I don't see why I should feel that this is going to occur anytime soon with the plot and tone of the next film.
You have seen 2 minutes of footage...
And even if they go the route of mass casualties and destruction, so what? It's not like Marvel hasn't been taking liberties with the personalities and characteristics of their properties in the MCU.
If you are creating a shared universe you have to establish a singular tone. You can't have Gotham City be dark and twisted while Metropolis and Central City are all rosy and sunshiny. That's not how the world works.
This post was edited on 5/17/15 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 5/17/15 at 1:43 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
You have seen 2 minutes of footage...
He has consistently shite upon this film since it was announced. He needs no footage to influence him as his mind has been made up for over a year now. Pathological in his hate is he.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 2:12 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Kind of like Ra's Al Ghul in Batman Begins, Two-Face in The Dark Knight, and Bane and Talia in The Dark Knight Rises?
I wouldn't describe Ra's as a rage filled lunatic. Just an extreme idealist whose willing to commit genocide to get what he wants. Two-Face is rage filled, but to a more understandable degree. Talia and Bane match that though, I grant you.
quote:
You have seen 2 minutes of footage...
And none of it has helped alleviate my fears.
quote:
And even if they go the route of mass casualties and destruction, so what? It's not like Marvel hasn't been taking liberties with the personalities and characteristics of their properties in the MCU.
I'm not an MCU fanboy and they've made mistakes and taken liberties. This isn't my issue.
quote:
If you are creating a shared universe you have to establish a singular tone. You can't have Gotham City be dark and twisted while Metropolis and Central City are all rosy and sunshiny. That's not how the world works.
I don't see why not. Just give Gotham super gothic architecture compared to Metropolis.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 3:16 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I don't see why not. Just give Gotham super gothic architecture compared to Metropolis.
It's fine to give the city a different vibe but don't make it seem like it's on another planet altogether. Gotham City can't be this bleak city where the sun never shines while Metropolis is always blue skies and rainbows overhead.
I already see a problem developing with the MCU over this very same issue. Daredevil is in the same universe as everything else that is happening in that franchise but it feels 100% like a different planet.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 3:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
I have nothing to fear from Ultron, Loki or most villains in the MCU so far.
However, I have felt legitimately threatened and scared by by Joker in TDK and General Zod in MoS.
DC knows how to make a villain work and make its audience feel threatened, marvel does not as their villains are typically a joke and no threat whatsoever. There's only been three marvel movies where the villain is legit and that's TDW, GOTG and Winter Soldier.
Superman didn't have the luxury of a credible team in MoS to help him out in this regard. He had to do everything on his own.
However, I have felt legitimately threatened and scared by by Joker in TDK and General Zod in MoS.
DC knows how to make a villain work and make its audience feel threatened, marvel does not as their villains are typically a joke and no threat whatsoever. There's only been three marvel movies where the villain is legit and that's TDW, GOTG and Winter Soldier.
quote:
focusing the fight on saving civilians. that's some real excitement, there
Superman didn't have the luxury of a credible team in MoS to help him out in this regard. He had to do everything on his own.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 3:55 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
Superman would have tried to get Zod out of the city.
They are both super powered kryptonians and perfect equals in terms of power. It's not like Superman can just manhandle him and drag him out of the city and trying to do so would likely just make it worse, and Zod would only kill more innocent people unless Supes fights him. He made the right call fighting him and there.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 4:04 pm to Sentrius
quote:
I have nothing to fear from Ultron, Loki or most villains in the MCU so far.
I love the heck out of the MCU, but this, right, here
quote:
However, I have felt legitimately threatened and scared by by Joker in TDK and General Zod in MoS.
and I've been reading the DC comics lately, and even the comics do a good job of this, they are really good at it, Marvel comics have never done this for me
quote:
DC knows how to make a villain work and make its audience feel threatened, marvel does not as their villains are typically a joke and no threat whatsoever. There's only been three marvel movies where the villain is legit and that's TDW, GOTG and Winter Soldier.
Yup
quote:
Superman didn't have the luxury of a credible team in MoS to help him out in this regard. He had to do everything on his own.
While facing someone equal to his own strength which he had never encountered before that point
Posted on 5/17/15 at 4:21 pm to Sentrius
quote:
They are both super powered kryptonians and perfect equals in terms of power. It's not like Superman can just manhandle him and drag him out of the city and trying to do so would likely just make it worse, and Zod would only kill more innocent people unless Supes fights him. He made the right call fighting him and there.
But he thrusted him into space. Seems like from there you'd have to make actual effort to actually land back in Metropolis.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 4:26 pm to RLDSC FAN
These things always have to turn into a Man of Steel argument, even in the Marvel threads. It's becoming useless to even read them at this point. Yippee, another year of this shite to look forward to.
Posted on 5/17/15 at 7:08 pm to OMLandshark
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