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Posted on 4/24/15 at 1:06 pm to TheOcean
quote:Beating a consensus top-5 P4P fighter in the world today, the second best (or best, according to some) welterweight in the world today, one of the two best fighters of the past decade, and boxing's only 8-division champion in history, all at age 38, would mean very little?. . . What an asinine thing to say.
If he beat Pac three years ago it probably would have bumped him up a few. Beating Pac now means very little IMO
Where do people come up with this shite?
Posted on 4/24/15 at 1:15 pm to Bench McElroy
I don't know enough about the old guys to comment or dispute too much, but I'm surprised to see Duran (4) and Roy Jones Jr (17) ranked so highly. Glad to see the love for Hopkins (19) and Julio Cesar Chavez (9). Also surprised De La Hoya didn't make the cut.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 1:28 pm to Patrick_Bateman
I think Floyd Patterson deserves a mention.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 1:34 pm to Patrick_Bateman
quote:
I'm surprised to see Duran (4)
Duran is considered the greatest Lightweight ever. Most remember him from his fights with Leonard, but those fights and everything after were at Welterweight or heavier.
He is ranked this high because of what he did before the Leonard fights, which was basically destroying the Lightweight division for about a decade. His run from around '71 - '80 is considered one of the greatest decades by a single man in boxing history. He was pushing legendary, Sugar Ray Robinson status during this run.
This post was edited on 4/24/15 at 1:37 pm
Posted on 4/24/15 at 1:43 pm to TigerintheNO
quote:
4. Joe Louis
5. Roberto Duran
And these two should not have flip-flopped on the list since then.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 1:48 pm to TheOcean
quote:
If he beat Pac three years ago it probably would have bumped him up a few. Beating Pac now means very little IMO
Well this comment diminishes Pacquiao's greatness, not Mayweather's.
This post was edited on 4/24/15 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 4/24/15 at 1:53 pm to Jwho77
There was another Ring magazine list that had Louis @#2, only behind Robinson.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 2:02 pm to Rouge
If you ask who Tyson beat, I'll raise you and ask who Floyd Mayweather beat? Past their prime fighters and nobody's with 20-0 records?
Also Roy Jones Jr and Rocky Marciano should higher than Floyd. Jones Jr is perhaps one of the greatest Pound for Pound fighters ever.
Also Roy Jones Jr and Rocky Marciano should higher than Floyd. Jones Jr is perhaps one of the greatest Pound for Pound fighters ever.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 2:03 pm to TigerintheNO
Guess they just like to throw out click bait then. Moving Louis down when no one current is moving ahead of him makes no sense.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 2:18 pm to Bench McElroy
I don't get the Carlos Monzon being ranked ahead of Roy Jones, Jr. In their primes Jones would have destroyed Monzon.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 2:18 pm to Jwho77
I don't know if it is them moving him down, the lists are done by "an expert panel" & the list were done a few years apart. I'm guessing they polled different people.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 2:20 pm to Jamohn
quote:
Ezzard Charles always seems to be a darling of the analysts and expert historians.
And usually by the same people who claim that Marciano fought bums.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 2:32 pm to TheOcean
Hopkins, Roy Jones and Carlos Monzon should all be top 10 Hagler ahead of any of those 3 is a joke.
Morales, Barrera and Marquez should be top 30ish.
Michael Spinks should be top 25.
Morales, Barrera and Marquez should be top 30ish.
Michael Spinks should be top 25.
This post was edited on 4/24/15 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 4/24/15 at 2:43 pm to Jamohn
quote:
And yet he's always ranked well ahead of Rocky. My point is he obviously doesn't suck, but I'm never quite sure why he's always ranked SO highly. Like top 5-10 heavyweight and GOAT light-heavyweight high.
Because Ezzard Charles is the better all around fighter & criminally UNDERRAted by the general public. Not by boxing historians & fans.
1)Ezzard Charles started out as Middleweight & cleared out the division to become the #1 contender ,but never got a title shot after beating Charles Burley twice & other HOF MW. Charles would have probably beaten Ray Robinson(a better welterweight who ducked Charles Burley) as well had he stayed in MW.
Charles lost 2 peak years to WWII & returned to the ring as a Light Heavy weight & is considered by many the GOAT LHW & most have Charles no lower than # 3
Charles after nearly clearing out the MW division without a title did the same in the LHW division without a title shot. Beat future champ Joey Maxim 5 times among other contenders & HOF fighters
3) After nearly clearing outt the MW & LHW divisions without given a title shot due to 'business decisions' he moved up to the only class he could get a title shot.
Ezzard Charles beat a prime HW Archie Mooore 3 times (KO last fight) , beat a prime Jersey Joe Walcott twice & went on to become the HW Champion in 1949.
Past his prime (Charles prime ended in 1951) he lost the belt to Walcott whom he had beaten twice & lost a rematch..
After losing the belt Ezzard Charles (past his prime) again nearly cleared out the HW division & got another shot in 1954 at 33 years old to Marciano.
Lost a close decision & rematch he was winning & nearly won on a stoppage after cutting open Marciano. 3 Years after his Prime when most thought Charles was a shell of his former self.
Ezzard Charles is underrated if anything & certainly has a stellar resume(better than Marciano's).
Posted on 4/24/15 at 2:45 pm to tiderider
quote:
hearns? ...
100% agree. Hearns top 15.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 3:29 pm to Amadeo
quote:
And usually by the same people who claim that Marciano fought bums.
Marciano went 4&0 against fighters ranked ahead of him on the list
Posted on 4/24/15 at 3:52 pm to Amadeo
quote:
And usually by the same people who claim that Marciano fought bums
Is that the Incredible Hulk getting punched?
Posted on 4/24/15 at 4:16 pm to sugar71
quote:I agree with that point. My comment about Rocky was specifically in response to the statement that his going the distance against Marciano was a good justification for him being so highly rated.
Because Ezzard Charles is the better all around fighter & criminally UNDERRAted by the general public.
quote:I agree with this as well.
Ezzard Charles is underrated if anything & certainly has a stellar resume(better than Marciano's).
Good post. My only point was that he's always ranked REALLY high. List in the OP has him as the 3rd greatest heavyweight since WW2. I've seen lists from really respected experts that have him in the top 5. I don't have him QUITE that high. I guess I haven't thought that hard about it.
Good case for him in this post though.
Posted on 4/24/15 at 4:21 pm to Amadeo
quote:
And usually by the same people who claim that Marciano fought bums.
Usually by the people who know a lot more about boxing it seems..
No knock against Marciano as he beat who was available 1952-55 during his short 3 year reign(only 5 title defenses) & retiring at 32(Only young Liston & Patterson loomed ).
In perspective Marciano (1956) beat a 42 year old Archie Moore who actually floored Rocky early on in the fight. Charles beat a prime Moore 3 times in the late 40's.
Jersey Joe Walcott was 38 & 39 when he lost after flooring /dominating the 1st fight before 1 punch took him out.. (Charles beat a younger Prime Walcott twice before he became a near shot fighter by 1951 losing twice to Jersey Joe)
Ezzard Charles (33) lost a 15 rd decision & KO rematch 3 years after he was considered near shot after failing to to beat Walcott whom he dominated twice as a younger fighter.
Joe Louis worth mentioning at 37? Ezzard Charles completely schooled a 36 year old Louis a year earlier.
Marciano retired at 32 after 5 defenses & his best opponents past their primes.
Ezzard Charles nearly clearing out 3 divisions(MW/LHW & HW) despite missing 2 peak years to WWII is not up for dispute with serious boxing fans.
Find someone else to take issue with besides Charles if you want to seriously discuss boxing.
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