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Posted on 5/18/16 at 4:41 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
You would have teams planning open cap space for a loaded rookie class like they do for free agency now which would be interesting.
A negative side effect of this would be that the AAU circuit would become even more dirty than it already is.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:10 pm to shel311
You would end up hating it and then argue against it on this board.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:21 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
Hope you aren't a fan of a small market, struggling team. The deck just got even more stacked against you.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:23 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:How so? I don't see it.
Hope you aren't a fan of a small market, struggling team. The deck just got even more stacked against you.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:24 pm to DynastyDawg
quote:
more parody
Señor Montoya suspects you do not know what that word means.
I'm your pal:
quote:
A parody (/'pær?di/; also called spoof, send-up, take-off or lampoon), in use, is a work created to imitate, make fun of, or comment on an original work, its subject, author, style, or some other target, by means of satiric or ironic imitation.
quote:
Parity (sports), an equal playing field for all participants, regardless of their economic circumstances
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:27 pm to CelticDog
This would make European Basketball leagues way more attractive.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:32 pm to Killean
quote:True.
This would make European Basketball leagues way more attractive.
Probably the best point against my theory I've seen so far.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:45 pm to shel311
quote:
Say Golden State has $2mil under the cap but Minnesota has $12mil, you think a rookie is going to leave $10mil on the table to go to a winner?
Remember, the better teams will have better players which likely means a higher salary closer to the hard cap.
You cannot just throw arguments out like this as generalities. Take David West going to SAS and what he left on the table, yes it is not $10 mil, but the point still remains guys especially later in their career, and especially specialists will take less money.
My ideas are this, no max contracts, but keep the current luxury tax system in place, for a lot of truly "small market teams" the money this has made has been the difference between P&L. Make the NBADL truly 30 and 30, meaning there is a greater farm system, and the NBA draft rules you can enter straight out of HS or prep school but if you attend college must stay at least 2 years. Also make there no limit whether by age or reason to when foreign players can come over and enter the draft. Make NBA rosters 14 and spread out the calendar year of games.
Basketball is so hard because obviously with fewer players on a physical playing surface regardless of sport, the superstars have more leverage and they truly decide teams fates. This is why as most know, you have real tanking every year teams are angling for only 2-3 stars that may come out of a given year. Do away with the lottery and make it strictly record based, this creates it to where you have fewer teams "tanking", the teams in the 6-14 range will want to win more. Also an idea I have always had was allowing for compensation sort of like the MLB does for teams at either the end of "lottery" or first round for teams that lose stars in free agency.
While no league is perfect, the NBA feels more and more every year where its players playing against each other than teams in the playoffs. While yes it is a smaller sport by total number of teams, you look at those years it was the 96 Bulls not Jordan and the Bulls. For most it will be Lebron and the Cavs, etc..
Just my two cents, nothing is ever perfect
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:54 pm to CoastTrashTiger
quote:Well sure there are examples of this, but generally speaking the better players certainly make more money.
You cannot just throw arguments out like this as generalities. Take David West going to SAS and what he left on the table, yes it is not $10 mil, but the point still remains guys especially later in their career, and especially specialists will take less money.
Throw in no max contracts and guys like Steph, Lebron, KD and Westbrook would all demand crazy amounts, so yea, their squads would be more than likely closer to full cap than others, thus making it harder to sign a rookie Simmons or Ingrams.
quote:My stolen idea basically completely eliminates intentional tanking as it would be useless.
This is why as most know, you have real tanking every year teams are angling for only 2-3 stars that may come out of a given year. Do away with the lottery and make it strictly record based, this creates it to where you have fewer teams "tanking", the teams in the 6-14 range will want to win more.
This post was edited on 5/18/16 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 5/18/16 at 5:59 pm to shel311
quote:
How so? I don't see it.
The major prospects are going to gravitate to the established or big market franchises all things being equal. Likely being offered bigger marketing deals from companies when in better markets, making the cost notably higher to pry them away to a smaller market. From there the more successful small markets would get preference priority in all likelihood.
So small market, losing teams will be regularly over-paying after already starting at a disadvantage due to freedom of player movement from day 1 or trying to build without superstars but likely losing guys to FA or forcing over payment more often when the players they develop cash in any success or threaten to leave.
This post was edited on 5/18/16 at 6:01 pm
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:15 pm to slackster
There's a sizable difference in max salaries as it is. Durant would leave ~$30M guaranteed on the table if he left the Thunder this year. That number would balloon to over $50M if he defers his free agency to next offseason. That's a huge deal for guys around that age when you never really know when your game might start to decline. Even more so for Durant who's already suffered one major injury. The current setup almost guarantees that teams can keep their first round picks for at least seven years; five at the very least. I don't see any real need to change anything.
I find it interesting that message board posters and such tend to talk up parity considering the NBA has always been most popular when there is a dominant team or two.
I find it interesting that message board posters and such tend to talk up parity considering the NBA has always been most popular when there is a dominant team or two.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:16 pm to NOLA Bronco
quote:I still think that only works to an extent.
The major prospects are going to gravitate to the established or big market franchises all things being equal. Likely being offered bigger marketing deals from companies when in better markets, making the cost notably higher to pry them away to a smaller market. From there the more successful small markets would get preference priority in all likelihood.
Again, assuming the best players gravitate to the same established bigger markets, these teams will likely generally operate maxed out on the cap, with little or in some cases, no room at all to even offer a rookie a deal.
Contrast that with a younger team building and on the rise that may have $10 or $20 mil or even more for those sure thing type rookies, I think there's a breaking point on just how much of a payout they'd take.
Look at Simmons, the stuff I've read has his annual offer around the $10mil mark, right? What if, under my stolen idea, the Lakers can only offer him $1mil/year but an up and coming team like Minnesota can offer him $15mil/year. That's doubling his salary. Most guys aren't turning down that extra money IMO.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:20 pm to shel311
quote:
My stolen idea basically completely eliminates intentional tanking as it would be useless.
Sorry my man honestly just saw the first couple posts and responded, but since Day 1 of the lottery do not think you or I came up with this idea
quote:
Well sure there are examples of this, but generally speaking the better players certainly make more money.
okay.....
But having rookies "sign" out of college or hs is just stupid and in no way would either group the players, or the owners ever go for it.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:21 pm to CoastTrashTiger
quote:Well, I know they'll never go for it.
But having rookies "sign" out of college or hs is just stupid and in no way would either group the players, or the owners ever go for it.
But I don't know why you think it's stupid.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:23 pm to shel311
You are serious?
Come on man
Come on man
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:24 pm to CoastTrashTiger
I guess it's just the "it's always been done that way" that makes it seem like the best way. I don't know why else it would be thought of as stupid provided you're adding no max contracts and a hard cap.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:33 pm to shel311
Obviously there is a precedent with every pro sport, especially in the infancy of many leagues, but the main issue with signing rookies and no draft is simple, there would be absolutely not parody. Even with a hard cap, lets just say for a minute they both hypothetically go for it, a guy like Simmons hates Philly that much (Granted no draft, and current system, they would not be tanking this way) you would have rookies singing one year deals left and right with the best teams.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:48 pm to CoastTrashTiger
quote:I don't mean this to be an a-hole, but I just don't think you're thinking through all the scenarios.
you would have rookies singing one year deals left and right with the best teams.
Who knows, a younger team with flexibility who thinks Simmons will be elite may offer him 5 years and $60-75mil. But you're saying he'll turn that down for a 1 year, $3mil deal with a big market, contending team? I'm obviously making up the numbers so even if they're off hypothetically, you get the point.
I'd find it hard to believe an elite guy, a rookie who hasn't made the big money yet is going to turn down $50mil+ for a 1 year, short term small deal. That would be the rarest of events IMO.
Still don't see how this eliminates parity.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 6:50 pm to shel311
quote:
I still think that only works to an extent.
Again, assuming the best players gravitate to the same established bigger markets, these teams will likely generally operate maxed out on the cap, with little or in some cases, no room at all to even offer a rookie a deal.
Contrast that with a younger team building and on the rise that may have $10 or $20 mil or even more for those sure thing type rookies, I think there's a breaking point on just how much of a payout they'd take.
Look at Simmons, the stuff I've read has his annual offer around the $10mil mark, right? What if, under my stolen idea, the Lakers can only offer him $1mil/year but an up and coming team like Minnesota can offer him $15mil/year. That's doubling his salary. Most guys aren't turning down that extra money IMO.
The main sticking point to me comes down to this:
While the FA advantage big market, winning organizations have over other markets will remain, you are now extending that advantage to the draft.
Take LA. They just opened up salary after the Kobe era is done. Under your scenario Simmons, who already wanted to go to LA, just signs with them. They need some more pieces so maybe they look to add Hield. Boston is cap rich and Ingram is right there. They want some big man help so they sign Bender to go along with him. NY and Brooklyn both look to fast forward their rebuilds and they snag Murray, Dunn and Brown between them. SA likes international guys so they entice Luwawu to sign with them.
The small markets or poorly regarded teams are left to pick up the scraps. Instead of Simmons Philly is throwing money at Denzel Valentine or something. New Orleans is taking a flier on Furkan Korkmaz or something.
The draft, as flawed as it is, is really a necessary tool to level the playing field with the big markets that have an ingrained advantage in FA and to a lesser extent trades.
This post was edited on 5/18/16 at 6:57 pm
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