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re: MLB Top 10 players right now
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:27 am to CLTiger
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:27 am to CLTiger
Donaldson being on everyone's list is arguable.
He's only hit over .300 once in his career, and that was four years ago with Oakland hitting .301.
He was 12th at his position in fielding % in 2016, 13th in 2015.
If it's his power that makes him top ten, hell he didn't even hit the most HRs as a third baseman, in either of the past two years.
Not to mention he's an enormous douche bag.
He's only hit over .300 once in his career, and that was four years ago with Oakland hitting .301.
He was 12th at his position in fielding % in 2016, 13th in 2015.
If it's his power that makes him top ten, hell he didn't even hit the most HRs as a third baseman, in either of the past two years.
Not to mention he's an enormous douche bag.
2
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:30 am to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:mainly because better teams have better players.
It has always "seemed" like it with WAR as well.
quote:it could if you thought that mattered. There isn't one way to measure WAR
Is there some component of RBI or runs scored in WAR?
quote:it may not be 100% independent of team performance but no stat is. But WAR is based off total individual performance and then it's normalized to see how it compares to the rest of baseball
How is it team independent?
This post was edited on 2/27/17 at 10:31 am
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:30 am to OldNo.7
Yeesh. Someone is going to just wreck your post for you.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:34 am to Jcorye1
That's fine. I said it's arguable...truthfully I just don't like the guy 
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:37 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
mainly because better teams have better players.
I agree that this is probably the psychological trap that is fricking with me.
quote:
There isn't one way to measure WAR
I don't even understand that
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:37 am to OldNo.7
He's top 5 in wRC+, wOBA, WAR and is top ten in ISO while having near identical k% and bb% while having productive defense
So yea, he's top 5
So yea, he's top 5
This post was edited on 2/27/17 at 10:40 am
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:38 am to Jcorye1
quote:
Yeesh. Someone is going to just wreck your post for you.
Yeah, I don't want to be a dick, but those stats are pretty much totally irrelevant for evaluating players in 2017.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:39 am to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
I don't even understand that
Different sites have different ways of calculating it that result in different WAR. That's while you will see people specifying which site and or use fWAR to indicate it was Fangraphs version of WAR.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:43 am to OldNo.7
quote:
Donaldson being on everyone's list is arguable.
He's only hit over .300 once in his career, and that was four years ago with Oakland hitting .301.
He was 12th at his position in fielding % in 2016, 13th in 2015.
If it's his power that makes him top ten, hell he didn't even hit the most HRs as a third baseman, in either of the past two years.
Batting average and fielding percentage are flawed, like many traditional baseball statistics. Notice how you're the first one in this thread to reference them?
quote:
Not to mention he's an enormous douche bag.
He has a standing offer to douche it up on my team any day. He plays hard, which is about the only intangible thing I care about in a ball player.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:46 am to The Seaward
quote:
Yeah, I don't want to be a dick, but those stats are pretty much totally irrelevant for evaluating players in 2017.
Get off my lawn! Wouldn't have been much of a post if I didn't blindly pick archaic stats to make my point.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:49 am to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
Probably none
It just always seems like it with box plus minus and win shares in basketball. It has always "seemed" like it with WAR as well. Is there some component of RBI or runs scored in WAR? How is it team independent? How can it be?
I have nothing to back any of this up, just genuinely curious.
I would think the only things that apply here would be things that are incredibly hard to quantify- Say, Mookie Betts seeing more fastballs with David Ortiz behind him
than other hitters with worse "lineup protection".
I'm also not sure if pitching WAR takes catcher framing into account.
I do agree with the earlier post that stated it's usually the simple explanation- good teams have good players.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:56 am to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
I don't even understand that
The formulas between Fangraphs and Baseball-Reference are very similar. They just use different sources for a few of the inputs.
The main difference in position player WAR is with defensive metrics. Fangraphs uses UZR, B-Ref uses DRS. The two are usually fairly similar, but they can differ significantly from time to time since defensive metrics aren’t as exact as offensive metrics.
The main difference for pitchers is that Fangraphs uses FIP, B-Ref uses runs allowed. Fangraphs basically gives no credit to the pitcher for balls in play, while B-Ref gives all credit to the pitcher. The truth is obviously somewhere in between, but no one knows exactly how much credit should go to the pitcher.
I think Baseball Prospectus has a WAR version that includes framing, but the other two currently don't.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:59 am to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
The first thing you need to know about the different WAR values is that we use different abbreviations to refer to them. The three main WAR sites are FanGraphs, Baseball-Reference, and Baseball Prospectus. There are other versions out there, and plenty of analysts, teams, and consultants have their own blend.
FanGraphs WAR = fWAR
Baseball-Reference WAR = rWAR (or bWAR)
Baseball Prospectus WAR = WARP
quote:
Each site uses a different hitting, running, and fielding metrics. FanGraphs uses wOBA as it’s baseline hitting stat, but the other two sites use metrics built on a similar linear weights framework. For base running, each site has it’s own version of base running runs, which we abbreviate to BsR. For fielding since 2002, we use Ultimate Zone Rating, while B-Ref uses Defensive Runs Saved and BPro uses Fielding Runs Above Average. Prior to that, we use Total Zone, which appears to be B-Ref’s choice as well. Baseball Prospectus is the only site that has incorporated catcher framing into their calculations.
FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference use the same replacement level calculation of 1,000 WAR per MLB season. Baseball Prospectus’ appears to be slightly different.
quote:
FanGraphs uses Fielding Independent Pitching (FIP) as our baseline. However, given that infield fly balls are very similar to strikeouts in terms of being automatic outs, we treat them as strikeouts in our WAR calculation even though they aren’t include in the general FIP calculation. In addition, we include a leverage component when calculating our reliever WAR. I don’t know if/how the other sites use leverage for relievers.
Baseball-Reference uses a pitcher’s runs allowed and then adjusts that value based on the overall quality of their defense that year.
Baseball Prospectus uses their custom Deserved Runs Average (DRA) metric as a baseline. DRA is a significantly more complicated model that attempts to control for factors like catcher framing, defense, etc within the run estimator itself.
LINK /
Posted on 2/27/17 at 10:59 am to The Seaward
quote:
The main difference for pitchers is that Fangraphs uses FIP, B-Ref uses runs allowed. Fangraphs basically gives no credit to the pitcher for balls in play, while B-Ref gives all credit to the pitcher. The truth is obviously somewhere in between, but no one knows exactly how much credit should go to the pitcher.
I prefer bWAR for pitchers because I think it tracks more closely with the results on the field. I don't use WAR as a predictive stat.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 11:05 am to DallasTiger45
i like fangraphs mainly because i like wOBA and fip. i would love to see how teams track this stuff cause you know they all have their own version
This post was edited on 2/27/17 at 11:07 am
Posted on 2/27/17 at 11:09 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
i like fangraphs mainly because i like wOBA and fip. i would love to see how teams track this stuff cause you know they all have their own version
This right here is why I do not think "advanced metrics" is the end all as some of you claim. It is a starting point but it is not the holy grail of determining worth of a player.
Just my couple pennies worth.
This post was edited on 2/27/17 at 11:11 am
Posted on 2/27/17 at 11:31 am to WestCoastAg
quote:
i like fangraphs
frick Fangraphs and frick Paul Sporer. I swear to God, dude knocked me out of every MLB the Show tournament I was in this last year.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 12:20 pm to 1ranter1
WOW..hes been in the MVP race the last 2 years. Should have won it last year. Aside from Homeruns he leads every single hitting category there is. He's a top 5 player.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 12:24 pm to CLTiger
If you think Altuve should have won the MVP over Trout last year, you are clearly a massive homer. You may even be related to Altuve.
Posted on 2/27/17 at 12:27 pm to The Seaward
How so? Stats are pretty damn even. Altuve had the better team. He should have won it.
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