re: Is there anyone here who doesn't think Nicklaus is the GOAT

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I like golf, but I don't know much about it. How did Tiger revolutionize it?

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Is there anyone here who doesn't think Nicklaus is the GOAT

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Tiger vs. Jack

There’s many out there who feel like Tiger Woods is all but washed up, finished, a has been. Others like me believe he has plenty of dominating golf still to be played and I think he’s going to surprise a lot of people in 2015 and beyond. However, regardless of what your opinion is on the future of Tiger Woods, there’s one thing that is certain. We have all been lucky to have witnessed one of the greatest golfers of all time absolutely destroy his peers for the better part of 17 years.

So the question is: If Tiger Woods never wins another tournament, is he the greatest golfer of all time?

We all know he’s still well short of the 18 major championship victory mark set by Jack Nicklaus, as he still only has 14. But is that the only measure of greatness? For some, yes it’s that simple. Jack won more majors, therefore Jack is the best and Tiger will have to settle for second unless he can revitalize his career and win 5 more. For others, it’s a lot more nuanced. So I thought I’d go through the many possible ways to measure the two men’s careers and see if we can get a better picture.

Major Championship Victories: ( Jack wins )

Again, no debate here. Jack won an amazing 18 major championships over a 24 year period starting with the US Open in 1962 and ending with that final incredible victory in the 1986 Masters. Tiger through 17 years has won 14 majors, his first being the 97' Masters that we all remember so fondly, and his last being the US Open where he played and won with a fractured leg. Of course the nod goes to Jack, but both men gave us an endlessly long highlight reel of wins.

PGA Tour Victories: ( Tiger wins )

In my mind this has to be considered when comparing the two men. It’s not enough to just win majors because there’s plenty of players throughout history that have won a disproportionate amount of majors compared to other wins. That doesn’t necessarily make them better or more dominant. There’s no question Greg Norman is one of the greatest players of all time. He held down the world #1 spot for a longer period of his career than any other man besides Tiger Woods. That’s an amazing stat, yet he only has 2 major titles. Does that mean Padraig Harrington who won 3 majors but only 5 PGA Tour events is better than Greg Norman? Not taking anything away from Padraig because I’m a big fan of his, but no of course not.

Not only has Tiger won more tournaments than Jack did, but he competed against stronger fields more often while winning those tournaments. In Jacks era it was quite common for some of the top international players to only play the 4 majors and then a handful of other events that Jack would be in. Tiger sees the worlds best in nearly every tournament he plays.

Along with his 14 majors, Tiger has won 18 World Golf Championships which is as impressive an achievement as there has been in golf or any other sport for that matter. The next closest to Tiger in World Golf Championship wins is 3. It’s mind blowing, but Tiger has more WGC wins than the next 8 players combined.

He’s played against and beaten the worlds best players with such impressive regularity throughout his career. Let me leave you with a quote from Jack Nicklaus himself that sums up this depth of field argument:

In 1930, there were perhaps ten golfers, pro or amateur, who might defeat Bob Jones when everything was right for them. After my first few years as a pro, there were maybe 30 guys who could beat me if I wasn’t playing my best. If I were out there today (1996), that number would be tripled.

Weeks as World #1: ( Tiger wins )

When measuring how dominant a player is, we have to measure them in their own time vs their competitors. Therefore, how long a player held down the world #1 spot is certainly a major factor when determining how dominant a player was. Tiger is miles ahead of 2nd place Greg Norman and even further ahead of the third best of all time Jack Nicklaus. Jack just wasn’t as dominant vs the players of his time compared to Tiger in his time.


Player of the Year Awards: ( Tiger wins )

Again, when measured against their contemporary competition, Tiger was considered the best player of the year more than double the number of times Jack was. It’s quite surprising, but in Jacks 26 year long major championship victory career, he was only named player of the year 5 times. Clearly he was the best, but it wasn’t head and shoulders above like Tiger is in his era. Tiger already has 11 player of the year awards (and if you’re like me, you know he’s not done.

PGA Tour Money List Titles: ( Tiger wins )

Both Jack and Tiger have one thing in common. Neither of them ever played a full schedule of tournaments. It was common for both men to play close to the minimum required tournaments in any given season, which makes it all the more impressive that both men won several money list titles. Again though, Tiger has a couple more than Jack, and Tiger’s only 38

Longest Cut Streak: ( Tiger wins)

Of all the records Tiger Woods holds, this one is in my opinion the most impressive. Against deeper fields he went 142 tournaments without missing a cut. The best Jack managed was 105. I’m not taking anything away from that because 105 is incredibly impressive in it’s own right, but again several of the fields Jack played against were arguably weaker than in Tiger’s era, both in the amount of international presence as well as the quality of the lower ranked players. I’d be absolutely shocked if anybody ever approached the 100 straight made cut mark again, let alone Tiger’s 142.

Lowest Scoring Average, The Vardon Trophy: ( Tiger wins )

In Jacks era there was an 80 round minimum to qualify which Jack rarely played so he actually never won the Vardon Trophy. However using today’s minimum standard of 60 rounds he would have won a total of 8 against the 9 Tiger has won. Both men were by far the most consistently low scorers of their time, but the slight edge goes to Tiger here.

Amateur Careers: ( Tiger wins )

Jack Nicklaus won 2 US Amateur titles which is very impressive, but Tiger’s amateur career is truly unparalleled. Not only did he win 3 straight US Amateur titles which a lot of people consider “majors” he also won 3 straight US Junior titles before that. Among all of Tiger Wood’s records, his 6 straight USGA titles has to be right near the very top. This is one of those rare accomplishments that I feel confident in saying will never be beaten. Tiger was destroying his peers at every level of golf since before he was a teenager.


Conclusion

If our only measure of greatness is major championship victories, then there’s no question Jack Nicklaus is the greatest golfer of all time. It’s very likely his 18 major wins will never be broken. Not by Tiger, not by Rory, and not by any other player for as long as golf is a sport. There’s only 4 of them a year, and Jack Nicklaus definitely won a massively disproportionate amount of them compared to his other wins. 18 majors in 73 wins, truly astounding. It’s not hard to see why most people just stop there and say he’s the greatest, no question.

On any other measure though, whether it be total wins, world ranking, player of the year titles, scoring average awards, consistency of play and cuts made, margin of victory, win streaks, calendar year dominance, whatever. By any other measure, Tiger Woods is already the greatest player of all time, and he’s only 38 years old.

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I like golf, but I don't know much about it. How did Tiger revolutionize it?

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Here's one you'll like. It's in black, and white

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if jack juiced hgh in the 70's/80's Tiger couldn't even sniff his jock...

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