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re: At what point will you say Lebron is better than Jordan was?
Posted on 4/25/17 at 12:06 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Posted on 4/25/17 at 12:06 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
'79 Celtics were 29-53 with a -4.78 SRS. '03 Cavs were 17-65 with a -9.78 SRS. The Cavs were worse by a wide margin. Not to mention Bird was basically at the start of his prime at 23 compared to a 19 year old kid in LeBron.
In addition the Cavs completely botched the team-building process. They let Boozer out of his contract for absolutely no return, drafted a bust in Luke Jackson with their one last lottery pick with LeBron, and signed a free agent bust in Larry Hughes. On the other end of things the Celtics added two HOFers the very next year after Bird.
Which is why championships are a poor measurement of individual greatness. KG is without a doubt a top 15 player of all time and toiled away for years on talentless rosters with little hope of getting past the first round even. Same for Kobe between the Shaq and Pau years. These dudes weren't just magically worse players in those years they were just on bad teams.
In addition the Cavs completely botched the team-building process. They let Boozer out of his contract for absolutely no return, drafted a bust in Luke Jackson with their one last lottery pick with LeBron, and signed a free agent bust in Larry Hughes. On the other end of things the Celtics added two HOFers the very next year after Bird.
Which is why championships are a poor measurement of individual greatness. KG is without a doubt a top 15 player of all time and toiled away for years on talentless rosters with little hope of getting past the first round even. Same for Kobe between the Shaq and Pau years. These dudes weren't just magically worse players in those years they were just on bad teams.
1
Posted on 4/25/17 at 12:07 am to PortCityTiger24
quote:Yeah? That was up there with MJ?
I agree that his finals last year was up there with MJ.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 12:09 am to StlPoke
It's the laziest argument there is.
There's no logic behind it
There's no logic behind it
Posted on 4/25/17 at 7:25 am to tigerskin
quote:Not sure he can get there.
At what point will you say Lebron is better than Jordan was?
3-4 more seasons of this year's performance or Miami Heat LeBron performance, and we can begin to have "that" conversation IMO.
I know he's locked in to #2, and there is no conversation I'll entertain saying otherwise.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:15 am to StlPoke
quote:That's all well and true, but if we're discussing the GOAT basketball player, all that matters is their play on the court.
There is more to Jordan than his stats and titles. He changed sports forever. He is the most influential and important athlete in our lifetimes.
The other stuff about MJ, while all true, is really irrelevant to who is the better basketball player, which is still MJ though IMO.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:16 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:Without looking, I'm fairly certain Bird played with 2 HOFers in his rookie year.
Bird had it more difficult, Boston stunk when Bird got there. Way worse than Brons early Cavs.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:17 am to BCMCubs
quote:You mean 11, right?
When he wins 6 titles and never loses in the Finals
Simple typo I assume.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:20 am to shel311
quote:
At what point will you say Lebron is better than Jordan was?
How about "never"?
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:23 am to BCMCubs
quote:
When he wins 6 titles and never loses in the Finals
So it's better to be eliminated before the finals, than lose in the finals? Jordan only made it to the finals 6/15 seasons.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:23 am to tigerskin
He already is better than Jordan.
Also, I'm not a LeBron fan.
Also, I'm not a LeBron fan.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:24 am to scormi5
quote:Know how i know you're too biased to have this discussion?
How about "never"?
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:24 am to tigerskin
When he gets in a time machine and plays against the stellar competition in the 90s
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:26 am to slackster
quote:
The fact that LeBron lost in the Finals is reason enough for some to never consider him. That kind of logic is a lost cause.
This is a bit of a ridiculous standard seeing as Lebron made his first Finals at 22, whereas MJ was busy getting swept out of the playoffs at that same age.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:27 am to jeff5891
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:28 am to shel311
I'll say this - in the context of "greatest ever" where every stone must be unturned to form an argument, the 2011 Finals is a huge stain on Lebron's resume.
His greatness in the last 5-6 years has made that an anomaly, but in this context, it matters.
He has some work left to do before we start THAT discussion.
His greatness in the last 5-6 years has made that an anomaly, but in this context, it matters.
He has some work left to do before we start THAT discussion.
This post was edited on 4/25/17 at 10:29 am
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:30 am to Winston Cup
quote:
When he plays 82 games in a season. Something he has never done in 14 seasons that Jordan did 9/15 seasons.
Eaay to do when you quit for a few years to rest
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:34 am to shel311
quote:
Without looking, I'm fairly certain Bird played with 2 HOFers in his rookie year.
Who?
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:36 am to tigerskin
I think Lebron's legacy will change once he retires and people look back and reflect on his entire career and what he accomplished and all the records he set. I think he will begin to get more credit than he does now. It will still be a subjective argument.
The only thing that can't be argued or disputed is that he is an all-time great.
The only thing that can't be argued or disputed is that he is an all-time great.
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:37 am to Kracka
quote:Archibald for sure. And another I can't remember off the top of my head...1 sec
Who?
Posted on 4/25/17 at 10:39 am to shel311
Dave Cowens was the other HOFer, he put in 14 and 8 in Bird's rookie year.
Archibald 14 and 8 as well.
Cedric Maxwell with 17 and 9.
Lebron had Boozer who was decent and Big Z, then his next best scorer was Ricky Davis. So yea, that poster who said Lebron's rookie cast was "way better" if off his rocker.
Archibald 14 and 8 as well.
Cedric Maxwell with 17 and 9.
Lebron had Boozer who was decent and Big Z, then his next best scorer was Ricky Davis. So yea, that poster who said Lebron's rookie cast was "way better" if off his rocker.
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