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Message

re: Metals, silver in particular, getting crushed.

Posted on 7/7/15 at 7:43 pm to
Posted by Reubaltaich
A nation under duress
Member since Jun 2006
4962 posts
Posted on 7/7/15 at 7:43 pm to
I still think the PMs have a ways to go down, Silver $12/oz, gold $900-1000/oz.

Just my uninformed opinion

I am not a big time trader of PMs, really just in it for the numismatic value mostly.

I am one of those crazy 'preppers', so I have PMs as a part of my portfolio as a hedge against inflation.

I have been getting some good buys here the last few months, with mostly junk silver: mercury dimes, pre-1964 quarters, Ben Franklin halfs, morgans, peace dollars. I have even picked up some silver Eagles.

People have been buying Silver Eagles by the wheel barrels:

quote:

NEW YORK, July 7 (Reuters) - The U.S. Mint said on Tuesday it temporarily sold out of its popular 2015 American Eagle silver bullion coins due to a "significant" increase in demand, the latest sign plunging prices have spurred a resurgence of retail buying.


quote:

This is the second time the mint has sold out of silver coins in the past nine months - it ran out of 2014-dated American Eagles in November last year.


I found this interesting too:

quote:

Dealers attributed the recent rush to purchase silver coins and bars to its low price relative to gold.

The gold-silver ratio was "way out of whack", said Jon Edelman, owner of Edelman's Coins in Jenkintown, PA.


LINK
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/7/15 at 8:46 pm to
Drill down in to JPM's short position on the COT. You need to make an educated guess, but it should be at least 24,000 short contracts given the open interest, and where JPM appears in the COT. So they're short about 12MM oz, and the total in Comex warehouses I last knew was about 182MM oz. What's not clear is out of the 182MM oz, what is allocated, and has a defacto lien on it. Otherwise pledged.

Then drill through this backing out their non proprietary accounts.

LINK

H = House account. S = Stopped.

I come to no other conclusion, given their concentrated short (some say it is now the largest in history in one single commodity) than they are driving the price down, and taking delivery for as cheap as possible.

You could go further about silver production the last five years etc, but suffice it to say, I like the fundamentals, and it sure looks like JPM does as well. At least at some point in the future. Again, based on reading some threads on here, I speculate I'm a smidge more patient watching things develop than some others might be.

I'm a buyer. Notwithstanding that it might go down to $12. Doesn't matter, because I see more upside, and I'm not smart enough to know when events lead to a silver run. Fanly I see more upside due to demand and usage. I think if had had people demand delivery in a run up, and shorts couldn't produce, and there is no way they can produce based on Comex warehouse inventory and open interest, there would be a cash settlement. So the entire JPM factor is only one small part of my thinking on silver. Which Warren Buffet doesn't like. Except he bought it. And then lied to his shareholders about it. But then released a statement which kinda sorta backed out of the lie. Anyway.
Posted by Reubaltaich
A nation under duress
Member since Jun 2006
4962 posts
Posted on 7/7/15 at 9:15 pm to
IG, there probably is some manipulation by JPM, I would not doubt it one bit.

However, I am looking at historical prices of silver & the price of the last few years , something is just not adding up.

Just curious though, what fundamentals are you watching in regards to silver?

Thanks

Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
65533 posts
Posted on 7/7/15 at 10:17 pm to
I've picked up a decent amount of pre-65 circulated US coinage lately both for myself and for several friends who know I've got a low-margin connection. The coin collector in me can't help but go through them for key dates. I've found several 32-D and S quarters, nice condition and dates of Standing Liberty Quarters and Walking Liberty Halves (pre-33), several semi-key dates in the Mercury Dime series (no 41/42 or 16-D ). A few Barber pieces to that were worth keeping. A really nice '07-O dime for one, I couldn't believe that one.

tl/dr: The high water mark of silver prices has flushed a bunch of formerly numismatic coins into the bullion market. Keep your eyes open.
This post was edited on 7/7/15 at 10:18 pm
Posted by Hickok
Htown
Member since Jan 2013
2858 posts
Posted on 7/7/15 at 10:28 pm to
What retailers or websites do y'all use to buy physical commodities (bullion, bars). Any chance banks still deal in this? Just looking for a trusted means of purchasing because I have no experience in this
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18887 posts
Posted on 7/7/15 at 10:32 pm to
I think you'll find some helpful threads in the guide at the top of the page.

Kitco and Jim Bullion ring a bell, but I'm not as well versed as the other guys in PMs.

ETA: also apmex and even Ebay
LINK /
This post was edited on 7/7/15 at 10:36 pm
Posted by SmackoverHawg
Member since Oct 2011
27318 posts
Posted on 7/7/15 at 10:59 pm to
I've always gotten my best buy and sell prices from APMEX.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 7/8/15 at 5:53 am to
Wasn't there talk around 3 years ago of JPM being caught upside down on a huge short bet on silver? That was around the time the reserve limits were being increased.
Posted by Reubaltaich
A nation under duress
Member since Jun 2006
4962 posts
Posted on 7/8/15 at 6:09 am to
quote:

What retailers or websites do y'all use to buy physical commodities (bullion, bars). Any chance banks still deal in this? Just looking for a trusted means of purchasing because I have no experience in this




Gainesvillecoins, JMBullion are two good ones.

I have a local coin dealer in NE Louisiana that I buy from too.

I don't think banks deal with any PMs

As with anything, do research because you can overpay.

Go with reputable dealers and websites because there are fakes out there.

ETA: I stay away from the silver 'rounds', I try to stay with actual government issue coinage. You will get better prices if/when you sell with government coinage as opposed to silver rounds. BTW, I like the Canadian Maple Leafs too.

Good luck, its addicting.
This post was edited on 7/8/15 at 6:24 am
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/8/15 at 6:09 am to
IIRC, they had to take Lehman's positions. I think they were upside down. Out of trust is probably more accurate. At least with respect to new regulations that basically said banks couldn't be blind short, they could only hedge their positions. Later it was interpreted they could hedge what they held. Later also hedge for customers. It is never really clear in JP's case if they are blind because I think they are either the custodian for SLV. It all sits in Comex warehouses, and when it is audited, wh is to know what is assigned to who? JPM keeps some in London as well.

Again, I'm not saying there is a conspiracy. It does appear JPM plays around a bit though. They had a lot of physical possession about five years ago as well. Sold a lot. And only recently started to acquire again.

The CFTC looked in to all of this and it never really went anywhere. IIRC, the oil run up (caused by speculators, and not supply demand fundamentals) triggered a lot of the inquiries.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 7/8/15 at 8:31 am to
Yes, I believe they are supposed to hold the silver that backs SLV. I think I remember the story as they were caught in a bad short so the CME or Fed (whoever is in charge of that) began raising margin requirements forcing people to sell thus driving the price down so JPM could unwind their bets.
Posted by Motengator
Central Texas
Member since Feb 2013
1357 posts
Posted on 7/9/15 at 9:39 am to
Westminster mint

Best prices I've found so far.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/9/15 at 7:10 pm to
Rosa Abrantes-Metz
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18887 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 6:47 am to
We're back where we were.

I'm going to Colorado next week. I might buy me a round at the mint
Posted by Fat Bastard
coach, investor, gambler
Member since Mar 2009
72509 posts
Posted on 7/16/15 at 12:21 pm to
I did well trading palladium futures way back in 1997/1998.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18887 posts
Posted on 7/20/15 at 7:48 am to
Friday I read into "how to short gold"
I wish I had put every dime I could into DGLD.

Are those types of inverse ETFs the best way to short gold (or silver or palladium)?

Could they be long term plays?
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/20/15 at 8:26 am to
Not what I'd do. I'd go long calls today. I'd go short on a rebound. I'd use properly priced options. Probably on something like GLD, and likely not on a leveraged note or fund.

You could short a short. Although I'm told that is very expensive. But I have and would do this given the correct set up.
Posted by Northwestern tiger
Long Island NY
Member since Oct 2005
23483 posts
Posted on 7/20/15 at 11:30 am to
WOW im glad as hell i got out of the metal stocks last week

That was the best 3000$ loss that I've ever taken

It will go down way more IMO

Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/24/15 at 7:06 am to
Posted by ljhog
Lake Jackson, Tx.
Member since Apr 2009
19055 posts
Posted on 7/24/15 at 10:01 pm to
quote:

I'll probably buy more SLW at some point soon.


This ain't no upwardly mobile freeway
Oh no, this is the road to Hell
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