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Started By
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Anyone with experience in Physician (specialized) recruiting?
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:11 pm
Forgive the broad, somewhat incoherent start to this, but I'm looking for some guidance and conversation here.
It is either
A: incredibly difficult, or
B: we just assume it is.
I feel like our organization has a lot to offer in terms of competitive salary, student loan forgiveness eligibility, and agency-paid malpractice insurance. Wouldn't those things alone make us relatively competitive? We're in a small market for sure, but a very nice small market, recognized nationally by major publications and such.
It is either
A: incredibly difficult, or
B: we just assume it is.
I feel like our organization has a lot to offer in terms of competitive salary, student loan forgiveness eligibility, and agency-paid malpractice insurance. Wouldn't those things alone make us relatively competitive? We're in a small market for sure, but a very nice small market, recognized nationally by major publications and such.
8
Posted on 3/21/17 at 12:54 pm to AUjim
Yes and we offered same but the one issue that arose over and over was paying for re-location
Posted on 3/21/17 at 1:06 pm to wfallstiger
How often are you all approached by bankers to possibly sell the practice?
Posted on 3/21/17 at 1:12 pm to AUjim
For a small market, my guidance would be recruit young docs about to complete there interns. It will be hard to recruit "big name" docs to a small market unless they have other reasons to move to a small market.
Hospital Administrator for a medium market. We have had great success finding PCPs, Orthos, ENTs and Internal Meds because we have a teaching facility in our market.
Hospital Administrator for a medium market. We have had great success finding PCPs, Orthos, ENTs and Internal Meds because we have a teaching facility in our market.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 1:20 pm to AUjim
quote:
I feel like our organization has a lot to offer in terms of competitive salary
9/10 times this is not the case even though management thinks so.
That's your issue. While you may think your market and your pay is good, if you are having trouble the reality is the people you are recruiting don't agree. It is usually that simple.
While the cost of living is often much cheaper in smaller markets, the reality is that for high income jobs like medical you often have to pay more for smaller markets because the high income earners want to live in prime markets and are willing to take a pay cut from $250k to $220k to do so.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 1:28 pm to AUjim
I can tell you from the other side of things that location trumps most of what you mentioned above. As a person in a desired specialty, 100k short term is not worth living in an undesirable place. Also, quality of life is top on a lot of lists. I'll take a pay cut and 20 percent less salary to take 1/5th of the call.
Posted on 3/21/17 at 1:43 pm to baldona
All of this is part of my general curiosity...
We don't actually do any of our own recruiting. We rely on recruiting firms to go find us someone.
I wonder if we could do this more effectively on our own
We don't actually do any of our own recruiting. We rely on recruiting firms to go find us someone.
I wonder if we could do this more effectively on our own
This post was edited on 3/21/17 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 3/21/17 at 8:04 pm to AUjim
Lots of smaller markets have unreasonable call schedules for their specialists. Why would a specialist like a neurosurgeon want to go somewhere where they would be on call every other day, when they could join a larger practice and have a 1:6 or 1:8 call schedule? You have to pay a premium.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 12:32 am to AUjim
I'm an ER doctor, and I agree with the poster saying your salary is probably not competitive. I make a lot more than the average salary according to those MD salary surveys. That's not to brag, because my friends and coworkers do the same. I think those surveys are designed to make academics and those getting raped by corporate medicine feel ok about themselves. However, I'd guess you're using those survey numbers -- but those numbers are worthless.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 4:42 am to AUjim
"Those things" you mentioned that should make you competitive are standard across the board.
I think the person who said your pay isn't as good as you think it is, is probably right.
Everyone is spot on about location. If you aren't getting interest then your location probably isn't that desireable.
All that being said, it could be the particular specialty you are looking for. I'd be curious to know what kind of doc you guys are struggling to hire. Depending on the size of your organization, you could see quicker results doing the recruiting in house, I'm convinced some of those firms do nothing but throw the job on job boards and wait by the phone...
I think the person who said your pay isn't as good as you think it is, is probably right.
Everyone is spot on about location. If you aren't getting interest then your location probably isn't that desireable.
All that being said, it could be the particular specialty you are looking for. I'd be curious to know what kind of doc you guys are struggling to hire. Depending on the size of your organization, you could see quicker results doing the recruiting in house, I'm convinced some of those firms do nothing but throw the job on job boards and wait by the phone...
Posted on 3/22/17 at 7:46 am to AndyJ
quote:
I make a lot more than the average salary according to those MD salary surveys. That's not to brag, because my friends and coworkers do the same.
I agree.
My annual income and the three MD's that graduated with me all think those "average" salaries are way too low to be accurate. I think they are too small of a sample size.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 8:03 am to AUjim
At Vanderbilt, we would offer generous re-location and market salary. VUMC would be able to get most people simply by being able to offer being part of VUMC which offers all that you mentioned plus 403b, tuition reimbursement, continuing education, malpractice insurance, student loan forgiveness, clinic rotations etc. They are buying practices within a reasonable driving distance of Nashville and having different docs do one day a week rotations at these more rural practices. They can offer living in Nashville and being part of huge academic medical center.
This post was edited on 3/22/17 at 8:05 am
Posted on 3/22/17 at 8:08 am to Serraneaux
I would also say that Lifepoint and Community Health Systems which operate hospitals and health practices in smaller markets are trying to do the same thing with specialty areas of practice. They've figured out that it may not be worth it to have a cardiologist there 5 days a week, maybe it's just 4 days and the the other day they rotate on back in Nashville or the bigger market.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 9:22 am to YipSkiddlyDooo
quote:
I'm convinced some of those firms do nothing but throw the job on job boards and wait by the phone
All other things aside, this is what I'm genuinely wondering about. They aren't motivated to fill a position with us any more than they are with another facility in the same market.
I genuinely don't think salary is the issue. Out of curiosity, and I know this will vary, but ballpark me what you think a 9-5 specialist (outpatient only) with on call 1 out of 3 weeks would command in your markets.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 9:42 am to AUjim
At VUMC, cardiologists ranged from 180k to 784k/year. Surgeons were on the higher end. I'd say most were in the 220k-300k range.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 11:23 am to AUjim
quote:
I genuinely don't think salary is the issue. Out of curiosity, and I know this will vary, but ballpark me what you think a 9-5 specialist (outpatient only) with on call 1 out of 3 weeks would command in your markets.
Depends on the specialty. I would look on physician job boards and see what the specialists are making in a similar sized market.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 12:25 pm to Serraneaux
quote:
At VUMC, cardiologists ranged from 180k to 784k/year. Surgeons were on the higher end. I'd say most were in the 220k-300k range.
a non ER board certified MD working as an independent contractor with one or more of several different ER staffing companies can make 250k-450k easily
Posted on 3/22/17 at 12:54 pm to white perch
We have used locums in the past-the rates they charged were insane. Wasn't sure how much actually went to the doc vs. what the company kept.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:10 pm to AUjim
quote:
We have used locums in the past-the rates they charged were insane. Wasn't sure how much actually went to the doc vs. what the company kept.
I think the locums company must keep about half.
Posted on 3/22/17 at 2:11 pm to Ric Flair
1 in 3 call is pretty hard year after year. I would avoid that.
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