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Message
re: Starting Poche was the correct decision, even in hindsight
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:34 am to ell_13
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:34 am to ell_13
quote:
ell_13
quote:
No one argues this. Lange is better. But when the first 2 games are weighted equally, you put your pitchers in order so that you have the best chance to win BOTH, not just game 1.
The first 2 games aren't weighted equally. Winning Game 1 guarantees you at the least a 3rd (elimination) game with a back-line starter facing your offense.
Losing Game 1 forces you to beat a front-line starter in an elimination game.
You keep ignoring this and restating your point over and over after I've shown you that the two games aren't evenly weighted. You and southernelite don't seem to be willing to accept it even though its as plain as the nose on your face.
Instead you chuckle and use ad hominem attacks. I don't get it. But just because you two disagree with me, you can bet I'm not here to call you a name.
This post was edited on 6/15/15 at 10:35 am
1
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:37 am to southernelite
quote:
southernelite
quote:
Except, they'll have their front line guy available to throw again, and you won't. Cal St is going to abuse Eshelman, everyone knows that. The guys that pitched for TCU and Vandy yesterday can pitch again if they lose 1. So, when their number 1 comes up again, would you rather have Poche or Wholestaff?
You're absolutely making assumptions here. This is the 2nd or 3rd time you've tried to make up something or build a house of cards to retroactively validate Maineiri's decisions.
It hasn't made sense yet and it still won't. You've tried it time and again. While ignoring what I'm saying over and over. It's like you keep throwing different hypotheticals up to see what sticks while I keep reiterating myself. Which you keep ignoring.
You aren't actually addressing what I've said. You just keep moving right past it in an attempt to validate a mistake with hypotheticals and hunches.
It doesn't hold water.
ETA: If my questions or statements or mindsets are too difficult for you to accept or respond to, we can agree to disagree. I'm not here to call you a clown or any other names. I think it was a mistake and one that CPM should face scrutiny for as its put us in a more difficult situation than we need to be in.
You don't feel that way. I don't see the logic in hypotheticals or guesses that would make the decision correct. You're unwilling to respond to anything I've said other than to float additional hypotheticals.
If this is where we are, we can agree to disagree. Just save the ad hominem. No need for it. We're both Tiger Fans.
This post was edited on 6/15/15 at 10:40 am
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:41 am to GFunk
No, just saying there are so many variables to contend with that you aren't accounting for. You are focused on winning game. This is a tournament, not a game. LSU had a very unique pitching situation and had to put their self in the best position to win the tournament. That was by putting Poche on the rubber yesterday. We're still in a better position to win the tournament now than if we had won with Lange yesterday.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:44 am to GFunk
quote:
You WIN the game in front of you. Period.
You can't win a tournament by just winning the first game.
It takes at minimum 3 victories. Nothing wrong with the strategy Paul used.
This would all be moot if Poche could throw to first, Hale can catch, and we could hit the ball better.
Poche has looked great in his last two outings, TCU runs a lot and having a lefty helps negate that. Nothing wrong with the decision, especially considering they aren't going to pitch Lange without a good 6 days rest. This is something that should help us in recruiting top flight pitchers to come to LSU instead of going to the minors.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:51 am to southernelite
You just said we are in a better position to win since we lost???????????
I never plan on being a loser. Sure I understand you can say if this then this we do that as far as planning. If anyone makes actual plans to lose and that's what you are really saying. We lost before the first pitch.
I never plan on being a loser. Sure I understand you can say if this then this we do that as far as planning. If anyone makes actual plans to lose and that's what you are really saying. We lost before the first pitch.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:54 am to southernelite
quote:
southernelite
quote:
No, just saying there are so many variables to contend with that you aren't accounting for. You are focused on winning game. This is a tournament, not a game. LSU had a very unique pitching situation and had to put their self in the best position to win the tournament. That was by putting Poche on the rubber yesterday. We're still in a better position to win the tournament now than if we had won with Lange yesterday.
I really and truly think you believe that and you've articulated it. I appreciate the conversation. I disagree, but I appreciate it.
No clown comments either. I really do enjoy talking to folks I disagree with. It's always interesting to me.
ETA:
This post was edited on 6/15/15 at 10:55 am
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:55 am to TeddyPadillac
quote:
TeddyPadillac
quote:
You can't win a tournament by just winning the first game.
The rest of your post operates on the assumption I believe this. Which is absolutely incorrect. So I'm not sure where to go from here. I believe our coach made a mistake and deserves some scrutiny for it once our season concludes-if not right now.
This post was edited on 6/15/15 at 10:56 am
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:56 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
3 batters before Paul did.
This is the problem.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 10:56 am to zoom
Some of you need to learn comprehension. .
Poche starting win or lose gave us a better chance of winning the TOURNAMENT, than by Lange winning Game 1.
Obviously best case scenario would have been Poche winning yesterday, that would have been the absolute best situation.
Poche starting win or lose gave us a better chance of winning the TOURNAMENT, than by Lange winning Game 1.
Obviously best case scenario would have been Poche winning yesterday, that would have been the absolute best situation.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:00 am to southernelite
Not if you don't win. Poche could pitch once.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:04 am to TampaTiger22
Well, Lange was definitely only pitching once before the championship series. So I don't understand that argument.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:04 am to TampaTiger22
Well, Lange was definitely only pitching once before the championship series. So I don't understand that argument.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:05 am to TampaTiger22
Well, Lange was definitely only pitching once before the championship series. So I don't understand that argument.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:10 am to GFunk
quote:
I believe our coach made a mistake and deserves some scrutiny for it once our season concludes-if not right now.
Why would you start Lange again?
TCU is 5th in stolen bases, lefty's help negate that.
Poche has been on fire his last two starts.
Regardless of when Lange pitches, he isn't' pitching again until the championship series. Poche can pitch twice in the first go round, and again in the championship series.
Lange doesn't mean automatic win. We saw this with Nola 2 years ago going 8 innings and giving up 2 runs, yet we lose to UCLA b/c we can't hit. Doesn't matter if your ace goes up there and pitches 8 innings and gives up a run or two, if you can't hit and score runs on offense, doesn't really matter who's pitching.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:34 am to GFunk
quote:
Winning 4 straight games is more difficult than winning 3 straight games.
Past or future outcomes have no bearing on whether or not LSU is going to win the next game.
This post was edited on 6/15/15 at 11:36 am
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:41 am to GFunk
quote:
The first 2 games aren't weighted equally. Winning Game 1 guarantees you at the least a 3rd (elimination) game with a back-line starter facing your offense
I'm going to disagree with you here. You have to win the first two games. Losing either game 1 or game 2 puts you seriously in a hole.
The only reason it is preferable to win game 1 vs game 2 is that, if you win game 1, you don't have the added pressure in game 2 of elimination. However, at this point in the season, the pressure is insane anyways, and either this team has the makeup to handle it, or not.
Based on recent performance, and the first three innings of game 1, we had every reason to believe Poche would go at least 6-7 innings of great baseball.
You need to place the blame where it belongs. The players didn't perform. 4 errors in a game at this level is nuts (not to mention hitting a batter with bases loaded, which is essentially a 5th error).
Plus, let's also remember Lange has had fatigue problems this year. The idea of starting him in game 1 with the thought he could pitch again (assuming he throws 80 or more pitches in game 1, i.e. a success) before the champ round is not feasible. You don't throw a true frosh arm on short rest especially when he has had fatigue issues this season.
Anyone who follows baseball will agree that there was no issue starting Poche.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:46 am to bearhc
quote:
I have never been sold on our offense against good pitching.
Agree
Posted on 6/15/15 at 11:55 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
The only reason it is preferable to win game 1 vs game 2 is that, if you win game 1, you don't have the added pressure in game 2 of elimination. However, at this point in the season, the pressure is insane anyways, and either this team has the makeup to handle it, or not.
Based on recent performance, and the first three innings of game 1, we had every reason to believe Poche would go at least 6-7 innings of great baseball.
You need to place the blame where it belongs. The players didn't perform. 4 errors in a game at this level is nuts (not to mention hitting a batter with bases loaded, which is essentially a 5th error).
Plus, let's also remember Lange has had fatigue problems this year. The idea of starting him in game 1 with the thought he could pitch again (assuming he throws 80 or more pitches in game 1, i.e. a success) before the champ round is not feasible. You don't throw a true frosh arm on short rest especially when he has had fatigue issues this season.
Anyone who follows baseball will agree that there was no issue starting Poche.
Posted on 6/15/15 at 1:39 pm to southernelite
And u know this how? There could have been a situation where a team would have had to beat us twice. You have no clue how it would have played out
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