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re: Starting Poche was the correct decision, even in hindsight

Posted on 6/15/15 at 6:06 am to
Posted by zoom
everywhere
Member since Apr 2013
3565 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 6:06 am to
A couple things
The pitcher had the breaking ball working true.
Was doing fine until first base throw.
From early on however his throws looked big and hittable and location and good pitching was working for him. Something seemed off.
Start him OK.
2nd stupid throw to first pull his arse.

Honestly team looked hungover.
Posted by Taurus
Loozianna
Member since Feb 2015
4955 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 6:23 am to
quote:

The point is, you play your best player at every positions every game in an effort not to go AT ALL into the losers bracket!


Yep.

Even announcers said winning game 1 is "crucial" nowadays.

You play to win the game. Which means pitch Lange in this spot.

The offense is really stinking it up lately so throw your best arms right off the bat.
Posted by Supermoto Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2010
9924 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 6:38 am to
quote:

can pitch 3 times over the tournament, Lange cannot.

That's the problem.
Posted by DrD
Houston
Member since Jan 2010
2609 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 6:39 am to
I agree! LSU's mentality going in to the CWS had to be a little suspect b/c they weren't starting their best pitcher. WTF? I just don't get it. Playing not to lose is never a good thing. If it had worked out you look like a genius. LSU's issue is the hitters - they need to step up. It's been their problem recently in CWS. We'll see. Keep the faith - at least for another few days.
Geaux Tigers!
Posted by scottyd
Member since Dec 2014
418 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 6:49 am to
Did anyone else notice that it looked like Poche said "about frickin time" when he finally got pulled?
Posted by HC87
Coastal NC
Member since Dec 2014
4545 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 7:01 am to
quote:

Starting Poche was the correct decision, even in hindsight


That was the critical failure. He needed to make the change before it became 6-1. IMO it shows a lack of confidence in our bullpen which has not been needed to any great degree since the NCAA tournament (regionals, supers, etc) began. The BP when called upon yesterday stunk. They danced around a 'wide' K zone and lacked confidence. Come right at these guys. We don't have any BP flame-throwers so you have to pitch smartly, to contact and your defense must play well. Sadly we played bad BB yesterday, just bad BB. Pitching and E's did us in. It will take a TEAM effort to advance in this CWS. We need to come ready to play on Tues - pitching, hitting & defense - and let everyone know we are not out of this tournament. GT!
Posted by SouljaBreauxTellEm
Mizz
Member since Aug 2009
29343 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 7:07 am to
Lange may have been wasted though. The team did nothing against TCU's starter.. who if needed would have finished out the game.. He went 9 innings vs A&m I believe and only gave up 1 or 2 runs..

Not sure if we would have won with only 1 run and the team still committing errors..

So you can sit there and say we scored 3 runs, but that pitcher probably goes the distance and we only got 1 off that ground ball pitcher.

So again, if we lose game 1 with Lange.. what hope do we have?

LSU is more than capable of putting a winning streak together after a loss. We have done it all season long. We last lost to Florida 2-1, but we put together 5 straight wins before this loss. The good news is we can knock out Vandy (provided they lose today) with our best guy. Let's go from there.
Posted by texastigerr
Texas
Member since Jan 2005
8305 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 8:04 am to
quote:

Not true. Sorry. You pitch your freaking ACE


This is right and I said it as soon as I heard the decision not to pitch our ACE game 1. Game 1 is the most important game of the series. You take your best shot at game one. How many times have you ever seen a major league team not pitch their ace the first game of a playoff series when they are able to set their rotation? And pitching your ACE early gives you a better chance of bringing him back later. In this case we have a guy with a sub 2 ERA. The chances of winning when your offense produces only 3 runs is much greater. We have seen this throughout the season. You don't think TCU was that much more pumped when they saw they would not face Lange. You don't play for game 2 in a double elimination tournament. CPM was wrong and it sends the wrong message to your players and your number 1 pitcher. Oh and can we please stop making the third out at the plate. Another fundamental rule that CPM and this staff doesn't seem to care about.
Posted by CheerWhine
A little bit of Mardi Gras
Member since Apr 2014
72714 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 8:14 am to
Because a best-of-7 series is exactly the same as a 4-team double elimination bracket... you have to win both of the first two to gain any real advantage. If we win tomorrow with Lange, we're still in the same spot as if we'd beaten TCU with Lange and lost tomorrow with Poche. CPM pitched the two in the order that gave us the best chance to win both. Starting Poche was the right call, even though it didn't work out. Now leaving him in that long, that's another story.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 8:16 am to
Poche was mowing them down. I don't know why he had that brain fart on the throws to first but after that it was a mental thing.

We are lucky to have pitchers as good as Poche and Lange.
Posted by EyeOfTheTiger311
Lafayette, LA
Member since Aug 2005
4333 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 8:43 am to
quote:

Which just happen to be the reason he was started. Experience + lefty vs heavy lefty lineup.... not hard to understand why he went with Poche....


+1

After having some time to think about it, starting Poche was the right call. Poche had been pitching very well, was more experienced, and was a left hander going against a mostly left handed lineup. If you're Manieri, wouldn't you start that guy over a true freshman right hander, no matter how good he is? He made the right decision based on recent performance, matchups, and game experience.

Let's not forget that prior to the two errors, Poche was absolutely painting the corners. He had his fastball and curve working to perfection. The errors completely fricked him up and changed the whole game.

The blunder on Manieri's part was leaving him in after he 4-pitch walked and hit batters. There was no reason that he should have been in the game. He couldn't throw strikes anymore. He stayed in probably 3-4 batters too long, and by then the game was over. I'll never understand why he leaves pitchers in so long while they are getting lit up, without so much as even a mound visit.

Posted by CheerWhine
A little bit of Mardi Gras
Member since Apr 2014
72714 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:07 am to
Exactly. You'll hear a bunch of people questioning the move because we lost, but before the game, the general agreement was that it gave us the best chance to win both of the first two games, which is what really matters. Silver lining, we still have Lange for an elimination game tomorrow (hopefully against Vandy).

I'm with you on leaving Poche in that long, I was ready to take him out after the HBP. He was doing great before the throwing errors, but those obviously got in his head.
Posted by Nuts4LSU
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
25468 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:08 am to
quote:

Pitch your best guy


Normally true, but not yesterday. Our team just isn't good enough to beat a team as good as TCU, so why waste anyone? At least with our best pitcher still available, we have a theoretical chance to win a game in the loser's bracket before we go home so we may finally be able say we've won a game in TD Ameritrade.

Over/under on 2020 as the next year that LSU finishes the NCAA tournament as highly as it is seeded. Do we finally break through and finish where our seeding says we should? Does the committee finally get wise and start seeding us where we belong? Or do we keep falling short of our seeding in perpetuity?
Posted by aaronb023
TeamBunt CEO
Member since Feb 2005
11774 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:11 am to
quote:

Poche


Posted by ell_13
Member since Apr 2013
84970 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:11 am to
Posted by TIGERBASEBALLFAN
SW Louisiana
Member since May 2014
4 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:14 am to
That is not much of a comfort at this point.
Posted by PeaRidgeWatash
Down by the docks of the city
Member since Dec 2004
15210 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:18 am to
quote:

Because a best-of-7 series is exactly the same as a 4-team double elimination bracket... you have to win both of the first two to gain any real advantage. If we win tomorrow with Lange, we're still in the same spot as if we'd beaten TCU with Lange and lost tomorrow with Poche. CPM pitched the two in the order that gave us the best chance to win both. Starting Poche was the right call, even though it didn't work out. Now leaving him in that long, that's another story.



100% correct.
Posted by GFunk
Denham Springs
Member since Feb 2011
14966 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:22 am to
quote:

southernelite
quote:

Poche can pitch 3 times over the tournament, Lange cannot.


Disagree. Poche's pitching twice only because he didn't hit 70 pitches yesterday. If he threw 105 in a CGSHO then he'd be done until next week. The mandatory rest day is Saturday for this Tournament. Which means you'd be bringing him back on 4 days rest if you threw him Friday which wouldn't be feasible.

His poor performance is the only thing that allows Maineiri additional cover there.
Posted by RoaringTiger33
Member since Jun 2011
567 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:24 am to
quote:

Because a best-of-7 series is exactly the same as a 4-team double elimination bracket... you have to win both of the first two to gain any real advantage. If we win tomorrow with Lange, we're still in the same spot as if we'd beaten TCU with Lange and lost tomorrow with Poche. CPM pitched the two in the order that gave us the best chance to win both. Starting Poche was the right call, even though it didn't work out. Now leaving him in that long, that's another story.
No, you're not, because Lange could come back quicker than Pouche. Instead, your #2 is ready to go again instead of your #1. That's just stupid.
Posted by RoaringTiger33
Member since Jun 2011
567 posts
Posted on 6/15/15 at 9:27 am to
quote:

Poche's pitching twice only because he didn't hit 70 pitches yesterday. If he threw 105 in a CGSHO then he'd be done until next week. The mandatory rest day is Saturday for this Tournament. Which means you'd be bringing him back on 4 days rest if you threw him Friday which wouldn't be feasible.


Four days rest not feasible?

I take it you've never watched any team play in the CWS, ever - teams almost never go more than 3 starting pitchers deep.
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