- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Patience is a virtue: QBs tend to get better with more years in college
Posted on 12/2/15 at 7:35 am to stephendomalley
Posted on 12/2/15 at 7:35 am to stephendomalley
BH, in his second year in the program, first year starting, had a better completion %, more yards, more TDs, and less INTs than Jamarcus in his redshirt freshman season (second year in the program, first year starting). Now he did split time playing, but let's give Brandon the chance to improve.
0
Posted on 12/2/15 at 9:45 am to stephendomalley
quote:
you have to remember this as well -the defense kept handing the ball back to the offense after short possessions by the opposition. makes our stats look better. it was not a good offense by any stretch. but for some reason we could run the ball with a short field.
This doesn't even make sense. I put up efficiency numbers, that has NOTHING to do with what defense does. Defense doesn't give us a high TD:INT rate, it doesn't give us over 60% cmp, it doesn't give us 4.8 ypc rushing, it doesn't score 35 rushing TDs. Short fields actually make the raw data look worse than it should. LSU pretty much did what they wanted on everybody outside of UGA and Bama.
quote:
then, too, as I recall, we were efficient with j lee at qb for 2/3's of the season. when JJ came back we couldn't pass anymore, and it was the tail end of the offense I remember more vividly.
LOL, again your selective memory is hilarious.
Outside the final two games vs Bama and UGA, Jefferson was 45/70 (64.3%) 654 yards (9.3 ypa) 5 TDs 1 int.
If you just go by the time he played in Bama game one to the end of the regular season, he was 39/60 (65%) 531 yards (8.85 ypa) 3 TDs 1 int.
But you would remember only the worst parts of one of the best season's in LSU history
This post was edited on 12/2/15 at 9:51 am
Posted on 12/2/15 at 9:51 am to stephendomalley
quote:
statistics are valid to a certain extent, but they don't tell the whole story.
And you do? quote:The 2011 offense was "one of the worst offenses we've ever had"?
some of those qb years coincide with really good defenses. for example, 2011, undefeated regular season - that was one of the worst offenses we've ever had. but that defense, led by Tyrann Mathieu, and the special teams, was so awesome it didn't matter. the one thing the offense could do was to run the ball in from 30 yards out.
Is this where you are going to tell us the whole story?
Despite being the only team in the country to play the #1 defense twice, the 2011 LSU offense was:
#3 in the SEC in yards per play
Yards per play is a pretty damn cool metric. It doesn't care whether you run a hurry up offense, and it doesn't care if you are given a short field. It just measures how many yards you gain on each play. #3 in the SEC is pretty damn cool too.
Despite being the only team in the country to play the #1 defense twice, the 2011 LSU offense was:
#2 in the SEC in points per game
Yards per play is cool, but points per game is what wins games. Now before you say pick-six or punt returns for a TD, this metric does not track points scored by the defense. You know what? #2 in the SEC is also pretty damn cool.
Now before you hit reply to post a searing retort along the lines of "the one thing the offense could do was to run the ball in from 30 yards out" because, you know, that's all LSU did in 2011.
I included some passing stats for you. Despite being the only team in the country to play the #1 defense twice, the 2011 LSU offense was: #4 in the SEC in passing yards per attempt
Wait, what? I thought you said the 2011 LSU team was "one of the worst offenses we've ever had"! That stat must have been inflated by LSU's defense and special teams play, right . . . right?!?! Oh wait, defense and special teams have no effect on passing yards per attempt.
I know. I know. I know EXACTLY what you are thinking: "This thread is about QBs, so who cares about passing yards per attempt because that's just . . . completing passes for lots of yards."
You want me to focus on QBs. And despite being the only team in the country to play the #1 defense twice, the 2011 LSU offense was:
#2 in the SEC in QB Rating
I know that statistic is depressing for you. You're thinking "Crap, an objective metric for QB performance." You probably really hate statistics. You'll probably drop a reference to "lies, damn lies, and statistics." Oh wait, you already dropped that reference on page 3 of this thread.
I have no doubt that you believe, and you want all of us to believe, that your subjective and imperfect memory of the QB rating for LSU's 2011 QBs is much better than an objective statistic about . . . well, the QB Rating for LSU's 2011 QBs.
You tried so hard to get the focus off of QB performance by shifting focus to LSU's 2011 offense with your statement it was "one of the worst offenses we've ever had," and then, POW, I re-focus it right back on QB performance by talking about the 2011 QB performance!
I await your thoroughly researched and thought provoking analysis.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 10:09 am to Salviati
offense/passing
86th 106th 2011
Posted on 12/2/15 at 10:11 am to Salviati
good heavens, man. take it easy. I'm not attacking you personally or calling you names.
I agree in general with your statement about qb's. but we didn't have a great offense that year. now I don't keep detailed logs like you do, and I'm not going to. J. Lee was efficient, but the offense was still nothing to crow about. it was really amazing how we won some of those games with defense and special teams.
you are really upset about being right all the time. just cool your jets. and apparently you just don't have much of a sense of humor.
it's going to be allright. you can insult me and call me all the names you want, I'm not going to reciprocate. I'm sure you're a fine fellow, and if I might you, I'd probably be glad to call you friend.
I agree in general with your statement about qb's. but we didn't have a great offense that year. now I don't keep detailed logs like you do, and I'm not going to. J. Lee was efficient, but the offense was still nothing to crow about. it was really amazing how we won some of those games with defense and special teams.
you are really upset about being right all the time. just cool your jets. and apparently you just don't have much of a sense of humor.
it's going to be allright. you can insult me and call me all the names you want, I'm not going to reciprocate. I'm sure you're a fine fellow, and if I might you, I'd probably be glad to call you friend.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 10:27 am to Salviati
Your post was a wall of text, but I've been saying this to everyone I talk to.
However, the more and more we see sophomore and freshman QBs coming in and having early success, the more and more we put those expectations on all young QBs and the QB coaches to develop them.
The real problem, though, is that teams like Alabama consistently have upperclassmen playing the position. Look at your numbers. Since 2007, Alabama has had a third year guy or older playing the position. LSU, on the other hand, has struggled with trying to find consistency in the QB position precisely because, or at least in part because, of the youth at the position. For whatever reason, we have too often had sophomores and freshmen playing QB. I was hoping that Harris would be the start of something with Franks coming in behind him to start as a Junior, but it looks like that may not happen.
However, the more and more we see sophomore and freshman QBs coming in and having early success, the more and more we put those expectations on all young QBs and the QB coaches to develop them.
The real problem, though, is that teams like Alabama consistently have upperclassmen playing the position. Look at your numbers. Since 2007, Alabama has had a third year guy or older playing the position. LSU, on the other hand, has struggled with trying to find consistency in the QB position precisely because, or at least in part because, of the youth at the position. For whatever reason, we have too often had sophomores and freshmen playing QB. I was hoping that Harris would be the start of something with Franks coming in behind him to start as a Junior, but it looks like that may not happen.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 10:36 am to PlaylikeJeter
quote:
offense/passing
86th 106th 2011
The topic of this thread is NOT the 2011 offense. Thus, rankings for offense are not relevant. LSU was crushing most teams in 2011. When a team is crushing its opponent, it does not throw the ball as much. Thus, LSU's offense and passing rankings look bad compared to teams that needed to throw the ball because they were trailing . . . or playing in the Big 12.
The topic of this thread is not even the 2011 QBs. However, to the extent that the 2011 QBs are relevant to this thread, then the most relevant metric is the QB Rating for the 2011 QBs:
#2 in the SEC in QB Rating
Posted on 12/2/15 at 10:37 am to PlaylikeJeter
offense/rushing
22 2011
offense/scoring
17 2011
Your point?
Only two of the top 10 passing teams had one loss. None were in the National Championship. 5 of the top 10 had more than three losses. Arizona, the number 3 passing team was 4-8. Passing yards or offensive rank in passing doesn't mean a whole lot at the end of the day.
22 2011
offense/scoring
17 2011
Your point?
Only two of the top 10 passing teams had one loss. None were in the National Championship. 5 of the top 10 had more than three losses. Arizona, the number 3 passing team was 4-8. Passing yards or offensive rank in passing doesn't mean a whole lot at the end of the day.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 10:50 am to convertedtiger
quote:
Only two of the top 10 passing teams had one loss. None were in the National Championship. 5 of the top 10 had more than three losses. Arizona, the number 3 passing team was 4-8. Passing yards or offensive rank in passing doesn't mean a whole lot at the end of the day.
At the end of the 2011 BCS day it meant something, not getting past the 50 yard line meant a hell of a lot.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:01 am to PlaylikeJeter
quote:First, LSU got past the 50 yard line. It's not relevant; it's not major; but you're statement is factually inaccurate.
At the end of the 2011 BCS day it meant something, not getting past the 50 yard line meant a hell of a lot.
Second, the loss at the end of the 2011 BCS day was not primarily the fault of the 2011 LSU QBs.
Third, you really have a problem with focus. Did your mom remind you to take your medication today?
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:07 am to Salviati
poor dude. you're just now finding out like I did that you're not allowed to disagree with salviati about anything. it makes him really upset.
I think we should be more considerate of his feelings. let's just praise him for his wisdom.
Salviati - you're the greatest, man! if you need any recommendations for a job as an analyst on college game day or SEC now, I would be honored to send in a long letter of great praise on your behalf. I have heard they need a new statistical analyst.
I think we should be more considerate of his feelings. let's just praise him for his wisdom.
Salviati - you're the greatest, man! if you need any recommendations for a job as an analyst on college game day or SEC now, I would be honored to send in a long letter of great praise on your behalf. I have heard they need a new statistical analyst.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 11:15 am to stephendomalley
serious question, salviati.
2011 team - if we had any defense of the last 3 years instead of that 2011 defense, how many games do we win that year?
I know the purpose of your thread was to emphasize the importance of older qb's, and I've conceded that point in agreement. But you insist that 2011 statistically was a great offense.
so you think we win more than 4 or 5 games with that offense and one of our more recent defenses?
2011 team - if we had any defense of the last 3 years instead of that 2011 defense, how many games do we win that year?
I know the purpose of your thread was to emphasize the importance of older qb's, and I've conceded that point in agreement. But you insist that 2011 statistically was a great offense.
so you think we win more than 4 or 5 games with that offense and one of our more recent defenses?
Posted on 12/2/15 at 12:00 pm to Salviati
What are some examples of QBs that were garbage as sophomores but we're good as juniors?
Posted on 12/2/15 at 12:08 pm to Salviati
quote:
Patience is a virtue: QBs tend to get better with more years in college
Yes, most get better with more experience.
Also, though, most improve throughout and individual season, getting better as the year progresses.
At LSU, our QBs have a bad tendency to regress as the season goes on.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 12:26 pm to Nuts4LSU
Aj looked much better in spring game and if he starts his 2nd year who knows? This begs to ? If Etling does well this spring does les stick with Harris or go with another 1st year starter ??
Posted on 12/2/15 at 12:30 pm to Asgard Device
quote:Go here
What are some examples of QBs that were garbage as sophomores but we're good as juniors?
Look under the column marked "Yr" for QBs who are listed as "JR" and then check their prior year.
Some examples of juniors who had significant improvement from their sophomore year:
Nick Mullens USM JR
Dane Evans Tulsa JR
Chad Kelly Miss JR
Cooper Rush C Mich JR
Paxton Lynch Memphis JR
What you will notice as you go through the list on the linked website is that nearly all of the QBs improved year over year. Nearly all of them improved dramatically over their first year as starters. It is not 100% (what is?), but it's the VAST majority.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 12:35 pm to Salviati
Byrd (former player) is confirming Miles took over the play calling after Crowton was fired..
Says people said he gave up on the team, but he says nothing he could do with all those pick sixes and poor qb play.
Also says LSU needs a better QB coach..
I understand QBs get better with time.. but you only have 4 years in college. Look at Boyd.. He wasn't good his first year, but he was a beast the next 3 seasons.. I think it's understandable to struggle year one.. but after that you should be pretty good to go..
Says people said he gave up on the team, but he says nothing he could do with all those pick sixes and poor qb play.
Also says LSU needs a better QB coach..
I understand QBs get better with time.. but you only have 4 years in college. Look at Boyd.. He wasn't good his first year, but he was a beast the next 3 seasons.. I think it's understandable to struggle year one.. but after that you should be pretty good to go..
Posted on 12/2/15 at 12:40 pm to Salviati
You get an A for effort and an up vote.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 12:41 pm to Salviati
You're saying these QBs (like Kelly) were trash last year?
A bit too focused on stats, you might be.
A bit too focused on stats, you might be.
Posted on 12/2/15 at 1:18 pm to Salviati
just wait till next year Mister.... shoot me
hell - they can't get any freakin worse!
hell - they can't get any freakin worse!
Page 4 of 7
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News