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Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:22 am to mmcgrath
Our composite average without Teheuma and Allen represents the average score for our current starting 5. All other teams composite average is the average for their starting 5, so transfers are accounted for.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:26 am to UpToPar
quote:
Well if it’s coaching, we must have had a significant drop off in coaching recently, because our OL looks as bad as it’s been in a long time.
Well we did just fire this guy whose specialty was OL and eating grass. Perhaps he's not a complete idiot and actually contributed some valuable expertise on this front.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 8:28 am
Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:36 am to That LSU Guy
quote:
But we did, so...
So we still have the 6th most talented starting 5 in the SEC.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:44 am to I20goon
quote:
and you have a valid argument UpToPar. I disagree with parts. Part of my disagreement is based on the fact that a weak "spot" on an OL causes a weak "squad" often. Our recruiting has led to the weakening of some spots (e.g. not enough quality OTs).
But that’s not all that uncommon and our weak spot may not be as weak as you think. I understand that recruiting rankings are not the end all be all, but every SEC team has at least 1 starting lineman with a lower composite ranking than KJ Malone, and 9 of those teams have at least one of their starting tackles with lower composite rankings than Malone. So, it’s not like we are the only team with weak spots on the line.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:46 am to DONHOGG
quote:
How many are tackles?
Bingo, this is the main problem. We have not recruited, and KEPT, enough true offensive tackles.
Where is Jakori Savage? Austin Deculus?
We've now had TWO seasons with a starting left tackle who is an average power 5 guard at best. Not an NFL guy whatsoever.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 8:48 am
Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:51 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
We have not recruited, and KEPT, enough true offensive tackles.
We’ve recruited enough tackles, we just haven’t kept them, which is an issue for another thread. If Okeke and Willie Allen are on the team then our OL is far and away the most talented OL in the SEC. even without them in the team, we are the 6th most talented.
And I didn’t keep track of players from other teams playing out of position (I should have and maybe somebody else will) but I noticed that it was very common while looking at 247 profiles to see an OG starting at OT for a team.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 8:51 am to UpToPar
Some people forget Les moved 3 players from the dline to play oline because Saban decided not to recruit his last two years here. Les also had way less time to recruit when he was hired. Ed Orgeron has been on staff since 2015.
Les made it work. Time for the excuses for Ed Orgeron to stop.
Les made it work. Time for the excuses for Ed Orgeron to stop.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 8:52 am
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:16 am to dgnx6
quote:'05 class- 13 commits, composite #14 and no whining.
Les also had way less time to recruit when he was hired. Ed Orgeron has been on staff since 2015.
Pretty sure I never once heard Les belittle the team talent by running his mouth about getting JUCOs in quick as possible.
Can't imagine players and recruits would have reservations about buying into a coach publicly whining about this. No way.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:24 am to UpToPar
The main issue with your research is that rankings coming out of high school don't mean dick once you get to college.
It's about talent evaluation and development. It rings true even on our own team. kristian Fulton was a 5 star while greedy was a low 4 star. One guy is playing while the other rides the pine. There are plenty of other examples as well but that's the one that popped in my head first.
It's about talent evaluation and development. It rings true even on our own team. kristian Fulton was a 5 star while greedy was a low 4 star. One guy is playing while the other rides the pine. There are plenty of other examples as well but that's the one that popped in my head first.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:26 am to UpToPar
If Allen and Okeje are in the team, our starters are still weathersby and Malone. We would still suck.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:33 am to UpToPar
Numbers don't always tell the whole story. Hypothetically if we got 5 lineman a year who were all ranked near the top the composite will be outstanding. If all 5 of those guys are guards and centers, the product on the field won't match the "star power".
It's no different than recruiting dual-threat QBs and forcing them to be drop back passers.
It's no different than recruiting dual-threat QBs and forcing them to be drop back passers.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:34 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:Does this ring true for other teams as well?
It's about talent evaluation and development. It rings true even on our own team. kristian Fulton was a 5 star while greedy was a low 4 star. One guy is playing while the other rides the pine. There are plenty of other examples as well but that's the one that popped in my head first.
Have we just missed the mark on evaluating our recruits so badly that we can barely block cupcake teams successfully? Would this past off-season be included in our players' "development"? Have we been this bad at oline in past seasons? Just curious.
This post was edited on 9/27/17 at 9:37 am
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:36 am to CharlesLSU
quote:Really?
Now, does he have a fair share of 4-5 stars guys? Sure. But, it's the under the radar gems that he uses to complete the unit.
Bamas O-line depth chart before the season
LT- Jonah Williams- 5 star composite
LG Ross Pierschbacher-4 star composite
C Bradley Bozeman- 3 star composite
RG Lester Cotton- 4 star composite
RT Matt Womack/Jedrick Wills- 3 star/4star respectively
Off the bench
Alex Leatherwood-5 star
Deonte Brown 4 star
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:46 am to UpToPar
quote:
First, it tells us that any notion that our OL recruiting has fallen off in the past couple of years is a completely fabricated lie.
Sometimes recruiting rankings are wrong, especially on the OL. And we did have attrition, more so than the 2 guys you listed, including a five star.
Further, do this exercise for the entire team. We will be near the top. This isn't new, probably for the past 10 years we have been too 3-4.
I don't find any of this to be news
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:47 am to Bert Macklin FBI
quote:
The main issue with your research is that rankings coming out of high school don't mean dick once you get to college.
It's about talent evaluation and development. It rings true even on our own team. kristian Fulton was a 5 star while greedy was a low 4 star. One guy is playing while the other rides the pine. There are plenty of other examples as well but that's the one that popped in my head first.
You can point to countless examples of recruiting rankings getting it wrong, but as a whole, recruiting rankings are the best objective and quantitative indicator of success. There are plenty of 3*s that turn out to be great college football players and plenty of 5*s that turn out to be busts, but as a whole, 4/5* players are going to pan out at a much higher rate than 3* players will.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:48 am to OceanMan
quote:
Sometimes recruiting rankings are wrong, especially on the OL. And we did have attrition, more so than the 2 guys you listed, including a five star.
I'm debating taking our ranking with Teheuma and Allen out of the OP because it seems like people stop reading there.
EVEN WITH ATTRITION WE STILL RANK 6TH WITH THE GUYS CURRENTLY STARTING
Posted on 9/27/17 at 9:53 am to UpToPar
quote:No argument there.
But that’s not all that uncommon and our weak spot may not be as weak as you think. I understand that recruiting rankings are not the end all be all, but every SEC team has at least 1 starting lineman with a lower composite ranking than KJ Malone, and 9 of those teams have at least one of their starting tackles with lower composite rankings than Malone. So, it’s not like we are the only team with weak spots on the line.
You'd have to compare our results to their results to judge the viability of using those recruiting rankings.
Not saying you should or asking you to, just saying it's somewhat of an incomplete comparison at this point. Valid, but incomplete.
If they are doing better with those guys, are biggest problem is indeed coaching. If they are doing about the same, we have a mix of recruiting and coaching (my position). Do we want to be Arky or do we want to be Bama? Bama obviously. So we have to recruit OL at an elite level and coach at avg or above level OR recruit average and coach at an elite level.
The goal is to be elite. What I'm getting from your posts is that you say we are recruiting at an elite level with average or below average coaching. I disagree with that. I say we are recruiting at a slightly above average level because of a miss/hole here or there (AU level?) with below average coaching. I can't stress it enough, if a 3* OG is our starting LT, we aren't recruiting at an elite level. No matter the overall average recruiting position; we have a problem somewhere in recruiting and that is not elite. That's my position. And then tack on coaching that either isn't making up for "my recruiting" or coaching that isn't properly developing "your recruiting".
Posted on 9/27/17 at 10:00 am to I20goon
I believe our problem is almost entirely coaching. The talent is there. We lost two potential starting tackles this past year that has lead to Malone playing tackle. That's not really a recruiting issue.
You say we are recruiting at a slightly above average level and compare us to Auburn. I want to note that Auburn's current starting 5 OL rank highest in the SEC based on recruiting rankings. So, if LSU and Auburn are only slightly above average, who is elite? I didn't do this and I dont care to, but Im guessing if you looked at the average composite score for every OL on each teams roster, Bama would likely grade out as the highest with Florida, LSU, Auburn and Georgia (possibly Ole Miss, but we know what's going on there) close behind. So I dont see how you can say that LSU isnt recruiting at an elite level.
You say we are recruiting at a slightly above average level and compare us to Auburn. I want to note that Auburn's current starting 5 OL rank highest in the SEC based on recruiting rankings. So, if LSU and Auburn are only slightly above average, who is elite? I didn't do this and I dont care to, but Im guessing if you looked at the average composite score for every OL on each teams roster, Bama would likely grade out as the highest with Florida, LSU, Auburn and Georgia (possibly Ole Miss, but we know what's going on there) close behind. So I dont see how you can say that LSU isnt recruiting at an elite level.
Posted on 9/27/17 at 10:13 am to UpToPar
quote:
Well if it’s coaching, we must have had a significant drop off in coaching recently, because our OL looks as bad as it’s been in a long time.
Could this be a distinct possibility? What happened?
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