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Message
re: How many here on Testosterone replacement therapy?
Posted on 7/6/17 at 2:10 pm to litenin
Posted on 7/6/17 at 2:10 pm to litenin
quote:
While I'm not as informed as you (or others in this thread), I've read about the staggering increases in this 'industry' over the past decade. My perception is that a relatively small percentage (20%?) of the huge increase in population taking Testosterone therapy need it while the rest are guys using it as an edge for working out.
I may consider it in my 50s/60s but not anytime soon.
100% this is the case. But at the same time the "normal" ranges are not always normal for somebody at a specific age group. Sure a 25 year old with levels at 350 might fall in the normal range according to the ama, but that is not the normal range for a 25 year old and if he is consistently at that level, he has a problem.
most of those with claiming low test could restart natural production using a Selective estrogen receptor modulator like clomid, tomoxifen or tormifen and something that stimulate LSH like HCG or HMG.
If you are done having kids, are in good health, and are going to be monitored by a compitent doctor, then nobody should suffer with below normal levels. At the same time just getting on it to get on it is stupid too.
if you just want an edge in the gym. go see the gym dealer and get a few bottles of test and run a real cycle.
Posted on 7/9/17 at 3:46 pm to Brazos
I am on Biote hormone implants. These things prompt your body to make its own natural T. Went from 350 to 1200 in 3 weeks. They implant them under skin on butt cheek. Depends on how much you work out depends on how long they last. 5 months for me.
Posted on 7/10/17 at 3:04 pm to ndtiger
I'm glad they have so many hormone experts on this thread.
But if y'all want serious advice, go see an endocrinologist.
If you just want to bulk up w/ 'roids like Alzado, knock your socks off.
But if y'all want serious advice, go see an endocrinologist.
If you just want to bulk up w/ 'roids like Alzado, knock your socks off.
Posted on 7/10/17 at 5:25 pm to junior
Most endos don't know shite and mentionin alzado shows your age and complete lack of knowledge on this subject.
I do agree they should see a qualified doctor but your local ends is prolly not that.
I do agree they should see a qualified doctor but your local ends is prolly not that.
Posted on 7/10/17 at 9:28 pm to lsu777
So the doctors that specialize in hormones (like testosterone) don't know shite about testosterone?
Testosterone does increase the risk of certain cancers, may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, does increase the risk of dvts and can increase the hemoglobin to dangerous levels. Taking a prescription drug without proper follow up can cause serious problems. A lot of the information you give in this thread is just plain wrong and could be dangerous.
Testosterone does increase the risk of certain cancers, may increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, does increase the risk of dvts and can increase the hemoglobin to dangerous levels. Taking a prescription drug without proper follow up can cause serious problems. A lot of the information you give in this thread is just plain wrong and could be dangerous.
Posted on 7/11/17 at 7:10 pm to lsu777
How many years off your life will Testosterone therapy take?
Posted on 7/11/17 at 9:25 pm to junior
They specialize in many other hormones than test. And the ones I have seen didn't know shite about trt and could not talk in depth about everything associated with it.
Trt does not increase any cancer risk when taken as true trt under the care of a competent doctor. There is zero evidence of test levels in normal range increase the risk of any cancer especially when estrogen is managed. Again running your mouth.
Hemoglobin should always be monitored but for 99% of the people on trt it's a non issue. Especially if blood is donated routinely.
The cardiovascular risk increase is bs. We are talking trt here not steroid cycling. Does a normal male get an increase in cardiovascular problems if his natural test goes from 300 to 800? No and trt is no different.
Name one thing I said wrong in this thread? Please do I can make you look fricking stupid. I don't give a shite if you are doctor or whatever I will put my knowledge on this subject against anyone.
First off from the very beginning I said if you are not under the care of a doctor it's not trt. 99% of the people seeking trt do not need it. I have said that multiple times and have also encouraged people not to go down this path unless you truely need it. So wtf are you talking about"taking a prescription drug without proper follow up"? I specifically said multiple times that true trt requires monitoring.
Again please tell me were "a lot of the information you give in this thread is just plain wrong and could be dangerous" when I have been the only voice of reason in this whole thread.
You come in here spouting your BS about Aldalzo and cancer when both have been proven to be false. It's ok to be a doctor and not know shite about certain things and with that comment you made earlier you showed that this was the case.
But again please post up some BS so I can prove you wrong. I normally don't care when people try to prove me wrong but to try and call me out for sharing dangerous info is comeplete bullshite since I am the only one discouraging the use of trt in the whole damn thread and other threads on this board.
Trt does not increase any cancer risk when taken as true trt under the care of a competent doctor. There is zero evidence of test levels in normal range increase the risk of any cancer especially when estrogen is managed. Again running your mouth.
Hemoglobin should always be monitored but for 99% of the people on trt it's a non issue. Especially if blood is donated routinely.
The cardiovascular risk increase is bs. We are talking trt here not steroid cycling. Does a normal male get an increase in cardiovascular problems if his natural test goes from 300 to 800? No and trt is no different.
Name one thing I said wrong in this thread? Please do I can make you look fricking stupid. I don't give a shite if you are doctor or whatever I will put my knowledge on this subject against anyone.
First off from the very beginning I said if you are not under the care of a doctor it's not trt. 99% of the people seeking trt do not need it. I have said that multiple times and have also encouraged people not to go down this path unless you truely need it. So wtf are you talking about"taking a prescription drug without proper follow up"? I specifically said multiple times that true trt requires monitoring.
Again please tell me were "a lot of the information you give in this thread is just plain wrong and could be dangerous" when I have been the only voice of reason in this whole thread.
You come in here spouting your BS about Aldalzo and cancer when both have been proven to be false. It's ok to be a doctor and not know shite about certain things and with that comment you made earlier you showed that this was the case.
But again please post up some BS so I can prove you wrong. I normally don't care when people try to prove me wrong but to try and call me out for sharing dangerous info is comeplete bullshite since I am the only one discouraging the use of trt in the whole damn thread and other threads on this board.
Posted on 7/11/17 at 10:04 pm to lsu777
7 you've been at TD since the beginning and are obviously very passionate about this subject, but just wrong.
Hypogonadism is a disease that should be treated by professionals. Telling people to go to a gym dealer? You know better.
I'm not sure who your top 3 expert is, but if he's not an endocrinologist I'd be worried.
On a health and fitness board, the 3 most important things - by far- are eat right, exercise and don't smoke. Hormone replacement for true hypogonadism is rare. Guys looking for an edge in the gym, that's something else. ( I've got no major problem w/ people vtaking roids for the gym- just make sure they know the risk)
Yes it can increase the risk of cancers, strokes, aggression- just look on the drug inserts if you don't believe me.
-(Just reread your post about telling people to go to the gym dealer, maybe I mistook your meaning, but sounded bad to me.)
Hypogonadism is a disease that should be treated by professionals. Telling people to go to a gym dealer? You know better.
I'm not sure who your top 3 expert is, but if he's not an endocrinologist I'd be worried.
On a health and fitness board, the 3 most important things - by far- are eat right, exercise and don't smoke. Hormone replacement for true hypogonadism is rare. Guys looking for an edge in the gym, that's something else. ( I've got no major problem w/ people vtaking roids for the gym- just make sure they know the risk)
Yes it can increase the risk of cancers, strokes, aggression- just look on the drug inserts if you don't believe me.
-(Just reread your post about telling people to go to the gym dealer, maybe I mistook your meaning, but sounded bad to me.)
This post was edited on 7/11/17 at 10:33 pm
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:36 am to junior
yea you completely misread what I wrote. I said goto the gym dealer if they want to use trt for an edge in the gym as that's not what this is for. I was saying exactly what your saying that if you truely have low test over multiple blood test then you should see a specialist not a general practitioner and try to get to the root of the issue through more testing. Treat the root cause and if that doesn't work then and only then should try even be considered.
I explained that even an MRI of the brain should be taken to make sure there is no damage on the brain and before you start trt a true cycle using a serm and something stimulate oh should be run.
Again you haven't pointed out a single thing I said wrong. And I am right about seeing a steroid dealer, if you are want to use trt as just a temporary thing then that's not trt. It's not for performance in the gym. It's to treat a true medical condition. Oh and these trt clinics are nothing more than legal steroid dealers. Sorry but if you want and edge in the gym and aren't prepared for life long trt and sides that come with that then a steroid dealer is a better bet imo.
As far as the endos I listen to... the two main ones are dr Michael Scally and dr monitor Khera (my doctor &a urologist) and Khera partners he does the long term studies with. I don't listen to any doctor on this subject unless they can first show they have a better understanding then myself on half life's and dosing protocols along with when and why to use an Aromitize inhibitor and hcg.
I explained that even an MRI of the brain should be taken to make sure there is no damage on the brain and before you start trt a true cycle using a serm and something stimulate oh should be run.
Again you haven't pointed out a single thing I said wrong. And I am right about seeing a steroid dealer, if you are want to use trt as just a temporary thing then that's not trt. It's not for performance in the gym. It's to treat a true medical condition. Oh and these trt clinics are nothing more than legal steroid dealers. Sorry but if you want and edge in the gym and aren't prepared for life long trt and sides that come with that then a steroid dealer is a better bet imo.
As far as the endos I listen to... the two main ones are dr Michael Scally and dr monitor Khera (my doctor &a urologist) and Khera partners he does the long term studies with. I don't listen to any doctor on this subject unless they can first show they have a better understanding then myself on half life's and dosing protocols along with when and why to use an Aromitize inhibitor and hcg.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:55 am to junior
Btw the rest of your post I agree with except the part about saying they are on the insert so they just be true. That's not how the inserts work. They list cooralations and possibilities. There are no studies that show lower doses testosterone as is the case for trt cause those. I am talking only true trt.
Oh and there is a new long term study that dispels any effect on cholesterol from test at dosages up to 600mg over 6 months. Also a new study on nandrolone that shows up to 800mg that the effects on cholesterol are the same as 200mg and all levels returned to normal within 12 weeks of ceasing the medication.
Oh and there is a new long term study that dispels any effect on cholesterol from test at dosages up to 600mg over 6 months. Also a new study on nandrolone that shows up to 800mg that the effects on cholesterol are the same as 200mg and all levels returned to normal within 12 weeks of ceasing the medication.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 11:33 am to lsu777
Is he the same Dr Michael C Scally that had his medical license revoked by Texas for prescribing steroids?
Is he the same Dr Scally that is a trained anesthesiologist with an interest in endocrinology?
Is he the same Dr Scally that is a trained anesthesiologist with an interest in endocrinology?
Posted on 7/12/17 at 1:40 pm to junior
The first, don't care if he had his liscense revoked in one state he has it it multiple other states and is extremely respected by his peers for his work on long term studies but honestly his main claim to fame is his post cycle therapy protocols.
I prefer to listen to my doctor though and the studies coming out of Baylor medical Scott department of urology as they tend to run the biggest studies I have seen.
But you still haven't answered what I was wrong about.
I prefer to listen to my doctor though and the studies coming out of Baylor medical Scott department of urology as they tend to run the biggest studies I have seen.
But you still haven't answered what I was wrong about.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 2:05 pm to lsu777
7, If you'd take the advice of an anesthesiologist who has an interest in endocrinology (but lost his license due to endocrine malpractice) over multiple board certified endocrinologists, I will never be able to change your thinking.
(Its like trying to tell an anti-vaccer vaccines are good.)
Uncle, you win coach.
(Its like trying to tell an anti-vaccer vaccines are good.)
Uncle, you win coach.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 3:43 pm to junior
I only listen to his pct protocols which have proven to work for many. Now being on true trt you won't need pct but he is pretty respected. Even the Baylor doctors knew who he was.
And again please explain one thing that I have said that a board certified endo disagrees with. I would love to research if I am wrong on something. Pretty confident I'm not but I can always learn new things and am always trying to learn more.
And again please explain one thing that I have said that a board certified endo disagrees with. I would love to research if I am wrong on something. Pretty confident I'm not but I can always learn new things and am always trying to learn more.
Posted on 7/16/17 at 6:10 pm to lsu777
I've been recently diagnosed with Low T. I told my doc I'd like to do some research before I take the plunge. I'm 38. You seem very knowledgeable on the subject, are you aware if this causes man boobs? Had a friend tell me he's known 2 different people that saw their chest change.
Posted on 7/16/17 at 11:55 pm to RLDSC FAN
If you don't monitor estrogen and your levels get out of hand, sure it could cause gynomacastia but it's rare and your doctor should prescribe an arimotise inhibitor with the testosterone that will keep your estrogen in check.
But you need to see a specialist not a general practitioner, see an endocrologist or urologist.
But you need to see a specialist not a general practitioner, see an endocrologist or urologist.
Posted on 7/17/17 at 10:01 am to lsu777
Thanks man, I really appreciate your input I'm still trying to come to grips with this. It was a bit of a shock.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 9:20 am to lsu777
quote:
lsu777
You didn't say anything that was incorrect. You know there are 2 schools of thought in this matter.
One school of thought is represented by one comment you made; that is, you mentioned a 25 year old with a level of 300 being in the normal range. We know that it's within normal range for an adult male but not truly in range for a 25 y/o male. It should be higher. This school of thought will not take action until this 25 y/o is in the 100s.
The more accurate school of thought is the one you advocate. I believe this is the correct one. Everything is relative to that individual that is being treated. There is the bare minimum level, the extreme max level, and the ideal level.
Please note that I'm not discussing anyone doing an actual cycle.
Everyone on TRT should be followed closely medically.
Posted on 7/18/17 at 2:00 pm to Paluka
my see a gym rat post was in response to people always asking how TRT would help them in the gym and their physique. It was made out of frustration because that has nothing to do with TRT as you know.
I will say though I do not advocate anybody getting on TRT no matter how bad their levels are until they are done having kids. Again though like you said and I have repeated, if you are not done having kids you need to see a specialist that is very very well versed in fertility and TRT and discuss your options with him.
I just dont want people going sterile. But also realize that extreme low test can cause these types of problems also. To me just managing the levels with a SERM and hcg would be the better bet until a couple is 100% sure kids are no longer an option.
and I hate to say that as becoming sterile on TRT is not 100% and I would hate to see a 25 year old living with the test levels of an 80 year old, but imo the risk out way the reward atleast when it comes to fertility. Sure one can go through an extensive post cycle therapy to restart the testies, but that can take up to a year and sometimes longer.
I will say though I do not advocate anybody getting on TRT no matter how bad their levels are until they are done having kids. Again though like you said and I have repeated, if you are not done having kids you need to see a specialist that is very very well versed in fertility and TRT and discuss your options with him.
I just dont want people going sterile. But also realize that extreme low test can cause these types of problems also. To me just managing the levels with a SERM and hcg would be the better bet until a couple is 100% sure kids are no longer an option.
and I hate to say that as becoming sterile on TRT is not 100% and I would hate to see a 25 year old living with the test levels of an 80 year old, but imo the risk out way the reward atleast when it comes to fertility. Sure one can go through an extensive post cycle therapy to restart the testies, but that can take up to a year and sometimes longer.
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