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re: Cop stands up to gun nut in Texas.

Posted on 2/28/15 at 11:19 am to
Posted by ChewyDante
Member since Jan 2007
16930 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 11:19 am to
quote:

Like showing ID to get in a casino, purchase age restricted goods & services, operate a motor vehicle, get on an airplane.





This comparison is completely invalid and spurious. A more apt comparison would be police officers stopping any motor vehicle they wish, with no probable cause, to check for DL, insurance, whatever.

First off, let me point out that the guy in the video definitely acted like a douche and the cop was cool as shite and handled that situation about as well as I've seen any cops do. That being said, that doesn't justify the cop's detention of someone breaking no laws, which I don't personally blame the officer for, I'm sure that's what he's been instructed to do.

With that being said, those things are really irrelevant to the actual discussion of whether the detainment was justified or not. In the state of Texas, open carry is legal. That has been settled via statute. Thus if the police or other citizens have an issue with it, they should appeal to the legislature to change the law. If you don't like that it's legal, that doesn't give you the right to harass and illegally detain citizens who exercise those legal rights. The principle is the same whether it involves open carrying firearms or police stopping vehicles with "suspicious" persons with no actual probable cause. I understand that the dynamics are obviously different but the fundamental principles are the same and many are insisting that, in this case, police should be allowed to flaunt the law and violate people's liberties, because some citizens are ignorant of or fearful of the liberty that has been provided. That's a very dangerous and I suspect hypocritical road to go down.

As the video showed, the cops released this gentleman. He did nothing illegal. He was NOT required to show his ID. The cop could clearly be heard on the phone with the DA saying he really didn't have any probable cause to detain or ID the individual. He was uncomfortable with the situation as well, knowing that the people who flagged him down were reacting to something legal.

While the guy in the video handled it like a douche, he is taking it on himself to determine whether the so called liberties the state says the people have are nominally in existence or actually in existence. That's something of value and it does stimulate a worthwhile discussion and case study regarding whether your liberties as guaranteed by law actually exist or whether they can be violated due to police discretion or individual dissent from other citizens outside the parameters of law.

I've read a lot of complaints on this board regarding the dubious legality of DUI checkpoints. I also suppose most here would agree that the police do not have a right to stop and search, detain, or demand ID from anyone, either as a pedestrian or in a vehicle, without probable cause. The exact same condition holds true in this case as well, even if someone carrying a weapon makes you uncomfortable. The gentleman in the video was a horrible spokesperson for the open carry movement, IMO, however that is little more than a distraction from the substantive question of whether his actions and that of the police were consistent with the law.
Posted by heatom2
At the plant, baw.
Member since Nov 2010
12815 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 11:27 am to
quote:

What amendment grants the right to keep and bear fish?


The weapon was not confiscated and he was not arrested, so his right to bear arms wasn't violated.
Posted by SPEEDY
2005 Tiger Smack Poster of the Year
Member since Dec 2003
83424 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 11:30 am to
quote:

I love the OT...cops giving inspection sticker tickets are told to fight real crime...cop stops a man walking down a busy street with an AR-15 is told to fight real crime

So in other words people want cops to be proactive...but they really don't.




Posted by Statestreet
Gueydan
Member since Sep 2008
12964 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 12:00 pm to
The detained guy seems to be an idiot looking for a payday.
Posted by thetempleowl
dallas, tx
Member since Jul 2008
14875 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 12:00 pm to
It is interesting. I am in texas and am all for open carry and allowing more conceal carry. Hell, the anti-gun thing is ridiculous.

However this guy is in reality causing a disturbance just to cause a disturbance and caused numerous cops to respond to this.

If I saw some dude wearing a kilt and walking down the street with an ar15 I would call the cops. Just saying.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89646 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

He didn't confiscate the weapon, he didn't arrest the guy, he just stopped him to ask for his I.D.


And there is a video floating around (I'm at work, sorry) that shows a really good way for cops to deal with open carry folks - he'd obviously dealt with them before, but he walks up, states he is firmly pro-2A, but that they have to know that he gets a call, from his boss, because a citizen called, that he HAS to come down and check on things and that they should understand. He conceded, up front, that they had the right to open carry and from what he saw, they weren't violating any laws or ordinances - and then - I think - he offered them his ID, then asked for theirs.

Textbook way of defusing a situation - of course these cats were videoing everything, and to their credit, beyond the attention whoring of their open carry (which I 100% support - if everyone open carried, everywhere it was legal - violent crime would drop to nothing in this country - criminals virtually refuse to take on armed victims - I wonder why that is?) - they didn't do anything to escalate the situation.

This was not like the army guy from Temple or Killeen that both he and the cops were just dead wrong.

Posted by ALWho
Earth
Member since Oct 2014
612 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:07 pm to
quote:

I love that cop and frick that guy.


Thank you for informing the OT that you are ghey.
Posted by LuckySo-n-So
Member since Jul 2005
22099 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:14 pm to
What pisses me off about the whole thing is that I clicked the link and now fricking Guns.com has a view from my IP address and now I'm getting ads on TD from the goddamn NRA. I really fricking hate the NRA and think Wayne LaPierre is one of the most evil people on earth.
Posted by heatom2
At the plant, baw.
Member since Nov 2010
12815 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:17 pm to
just google some boobs or something
Posted by Salmon
On the trails
Member since Feb 2008
83652 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:23 pm to
these open carry idiots do more harm than good to guns rights

jesus I hate these guys
This post was edited on 2/28/15 at 1:26 pm
Posted by Rize
Spring Texas
Member since Sep 2011
15846 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:34 pm to


[/img]
quote:

Posted by Message Salmon Cop stands up to gun nut in Texas. these open carry idiots do more harm than good to guns rights jesus I hate these guys


Agreed!
Posted by cattus
Member since Jan 2009
13472 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

"all that constitutional crap"


no doubt a reference to the behavior and use of the constitution and not the constitution itself
Posted by uway
Member since Sep 2004
33109 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:45 pm to
quote:

Is it not reasonable to expect law enforcement to make sure he does not pose a danger?


How is he supposed to make sure of that? Was Adam Lanza a convicted felon?
Posted by Camp Randall
The Shadow of the Valley of Death
Member since Nov 2005
15605 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:47 pm to
He's wearing a kilt and a military style weapon strapped to his back in Houston. Not surprised the cops got called.
Posted by SohCahToa
New Orleans, La
Member since Jan 2011
7750 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 1:52 pm to
Well, he could have shot him in the face. That would ensure he wasnt a threat, and i would be perfectly fine with everyone of these idiots walking around with their rifles and recorders on suffering the same fate.
Posted by lsu480
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
92877 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 2:00 pm to
quote:

What pisses me off about the whole thing is that I clicked the link and now fricking Guns.com has a view from my IP address and now I'm getting ads on TD from the goddamn NRA


That isn't how it works on TD with ads but if you want to feel better about it just clear your browser history, your cookies and your cache.
Posted by PlanoPrivateer
Frisco, TX
Member since Jan 2004
2805 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

That being said, that doesn't justify the cop's detention of someone breaking no laws, which I don't personally blame the officer for, I'm sure that's what he's been instructed to do.

Did you miss the part where the police were responding to multiple phone calls about this guy? Do you want police to just ignore complaints from concerned citizens or at least check out the complaint? My opinion was the response was appropriate.
This post was edited on 2/28/15 at 2:07 pm
Posted by lsu480
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
92877 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

Your title for your OP sucks arse. There was no probable cause to stop Gonzales. You say, in a squeaky voice, "but, but, he was carrying and assault rifle." Still, it is legal, Texas LEO's can not force a person walking to ID themselves and Gonzales did nothing wrong. There's probably 10,000 criminals in a 5 mile radius of that area that have illegal firearms, but they'll run from the police or shoot at you.



I have a 2 part question for you:

1. What if a person dressed up in a black trench coat and stood 1001 feet from an elementary school while carrying 2 AR-15's and just stared at the kids playing on the playground while pacing back and forth. They wouldn't be breaking any laws, should the police come up and ask for ID?

2. If you said yes why? If you said no, and the person ended up shooting all of the kids, should the police be liable for not doing anything?
Posted by SamuelClemens
Earth
Member since Feb 2015
11727 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

This comparison is completely invalid and spurious.


In reality it does not approach complete invalidity.
Posted by brass2mouth
NOLA
Member since Jul 2007
19722 posts
Posted on 2/28/15 at 2:09 pm to
quote:

Yes. If you're legally doing it you have nothing to worry about. Show your ID and go on your way.


By your rationale cops should pull over any and every person on the roadways to make sure they have a license and insurance.
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