re: So who all is gonna be toting 20ga's for duck this year?

quote:

---

That being said, a 1-1/4 oz. steel 20 gauge load is very common and not at all out of the price range of most duck hunters. And it's ballistically equivalent to the 12 gauge.

---

There is no such thing. You can't even get 1 1/8 ounce of steel shot into a 3-inch 20-gauge load, and the larger the pellets, the fewer you can pack into the smaller hull. Only the Blind Side pellets (those stackable squarish things)allow more, and only slightly more than 1 ounce of steel in a 3-inch 20-gauge hull.

The 20-gauge using steel shot is nowhere near a ballistic equivalent of a 12-gauge no matter how you slice it. You can shoot more steel pellets of larger size at higher velocities in the 12 than the 20, and you can pick and choose from a FAR larger variety of loads to find a sweet-patterning load.

That being said, if you can put an adequate number of pellets, each with sufficient energy to penetrate to the vitals, on a bird at whatever range you are shooting ..... it makes no difference what gauge, or length of shell you use. It is simply much easier to do so with a 12 than a 20-gauge.

I will be taking to the marsh with my 20-gauge 11-87 with 3-inch, 7/8 ounce of steel 4's at 1550 fps. There are about 168 pellets in that load and my MOD choke tube averages about 114 pellets in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. That is a rock-solid pattern density and adequate penetration for any duck I'm going to shoot in coastal Louisiana marsh.

But by using my 12-gauge, my favorite load of 3-inch, 1 1/8 ounce of steel 3's gives me about 172 pellets at the same velocity, and I average about 118 pellets in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards. So I get about the same pattern density with greater penetration energy from a larger pellet.

Or I could use 4's in my 12-gauge load and start with 216 pellets and average right at 145 pellets in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards.

20-gauge: definitely adequate
12-gauge: definitely better

If I do my part by getting the bird within 40 yards and putting the pattern in the right place: same result.

quote:

---

how are they on others

---

Not sure what others you are talking about but during big duck season when everybody is switching shells with greys and specks overhead I'm calling with kent (usually) 3.5" #1s 1 9/16 ounce. This load and my patternmaster extended range is fricken nasty. Under 40 yards I usually don't even shoot geese to the ground (fault I know). If I feel good on the shot I'm finding his buddy. Yeah it might look like a teal breast got hit with a rpg but last year the water was deep and the dog had to work his arse off for cripples from everybody shooting improved cylinder and #4s. If there's 6 birds on the water and I know I don't really have to watch where mine fall I can help the dog mark birds and bust it down the levee or whatever.

quote:

---

There is no such thing. You can't even get 1 1/8 ounce of steel shot into a 3-inch 20-gauge load, and the larger the pellets, the fewer you can pack into the smaller hull. Only the Blind Side pellets (those stackable squarish things)allow more, and only slightly more than 1 ounce of steel in a 3-inch 20-gauge hull.

---

I made a mistake when typing that up originally. I switched to talking about steel loads, but my mind was still thinking about "HD" load numbers.

quote:

---

The 20-gauge using steel shot is nowhere near a ballistic equivalent of a 12-gauge no matter how you slice

---

I don't want to start a pissing match, but that statement just isn't true for every shotshell combination. So in an attempt to try and better articulate my point about 20 ga. vs. 12 ga. for duck hunting, I will offer this.

There is a wide variety of 12 gauge duck loads that span the entire spectrum of complete crap to absolutely excellent.

Likewise, there is a wide variety of 20 gauge duck loads that span the entire spectrum of complete crap to absolutely excellent.

It is not true to state that the complete crap 12 gauge load is still ballistically superior to the absolutely excellent 20 gauge load. A lot of work has been done in this regard and the results of ballistic gel tests, patterning, Ed Lowry's shotshell ballistics work, KPY's shotshell ballistics work, etc. bears this out. Hence my main point stating that judging "ethical" duck hunting by gauge is not the best barometer.

quote:

---

I don't want to start a pissing match, but that statement just isn't true for every shotshell combination. So in an attempt to try and better articulate my point about 20 ga. vs. 12 ga. for duck hunting, I will offer this.

There is a wide variety of 12 gauge duck loads that span the entire spectrum of complete crap to absolutely excellent.

Likewise, there is a wide variety of 20 gauge duck loads that span the entire spectrum of complete crap to absolutely excellent.

It is not true to state that the complete crap 12 gauge load is still ballistically superior to the absolutely excellent 20 gauge load.

---

So you want to make a statement about the ballistic capabilities of a 12 vs a 20 gauge by cherry-picking a comparison of the "worst" 12 to the "best" 20 gauge loads? Or compare steel-shot in 12 vs hevi-shot in 20 gauge?

OK ..... I did say "no matter how you slice it".

But don't kid yourself. When it comes to the fundamental aspect of lethality, which is putting an adequate number pellets, each with the capability of penetrating to the vitals, on a bird at whatever range you are shooting .... a 12 shooting "complete crap" is better than a 20 shooting "complete crap"; a 12 shooting hevi-shot is better than a 20 shooting hevi-shot; a 12-shooting steel 2's beats a 20 shooting steel 2's; a 3-inch 12 is better than a 3-inch 20.

Need I go on?

Show up with a 20-gauge shooting whatever you want, and wiht a 12-gauge I will put more pellets of equal or more penetrating energy in a 30-inch circle at whatever range simply because I have more to work with. That is ballistic capability.

Nothing about that reflects ethics. If you put an adequate number of pellets, each with sufficient energy to penetrate your quarry to the vitals, at whatever range your are shooting ..... I couldn't care less what you are shooting it out of.