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Started By
Message
re: Powel Shooting footage
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:44 pm to terd ferguson
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:44 pm to terd ferguson
quote:
I don't agree with that... I think the militarization of police is bullshite.
Have an upvote. quote:
EVERYONE is entitled to defend themselves
He wanted to die, not kill Cops.
1
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:44 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
He wanted to die, not kill Cops.
And you know for a fact that he wouldn't have used deadly force to make sure that happened?
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:46 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
And you know for a fact that he wouldn't have used deadly force to make sure that happened?
So the safe bet is to start assuming things?
arse + U + ME
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 4:48 pm
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:48 pm to Manzielathon
When you have someone approaching you with a deadly weapon? Yes, the safe bet is to assume that if they reach you, they will use that weapon.
This isn't a difficult concept. Stop being so dense.
This isn't a difficult concept. Stop being so dense.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:50 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
If it wasn't for the fact that he slowly walked up to them screaming shoot me, you'd be correct.
How about you stop being so dense in pretending like the officers only had one course of action, and that course of action needed to involve 9+ bullets.
How about you stop being so dense in pretending like the officers only had one course of action, and that course of action needed to involve 9+ bullets.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 4:52 pm
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:51 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
If it wasn't for the fact that he slowly walked up to them screaming shoot me, you'd be correct.
No, I'm correct either way.
quote:
If it wasn't for the fact that he slowly walked up to them screaming shoot me
This has no bearing on his willingness to use the deadly weapon in his possession.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:52 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
This has no bearing on his willingness to use the deadly weapon in his possession
So why'd he walk up to them. Why wouldn't you charge them?
You're the dense one here.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:53 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
How about you stop being so dense in pretending like the officers only had one course of action, and that course of action needed to involve 9+ bullets.
I have not once said they only had one course of action. Straw man. Try again.
I have merely argued that the cops actions cannot be considered murder under any logical argument. I have also argued that they may have been excessive, but at that point we are just splitting hairs.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:55 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
So why'd he walk up to them. Why wouldn't you charge them
What does it matter? We know he wanted them to shoot him. We don't know the extent he is willing to go to make that happen.
quote:
You're the dense one here.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:55 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
I have also argued that they may have been excessive, but at that point we are just splitting hairs.
That's the entire point of me posting in this thread.
For you idiots to understand that this is an excessive use of force, and the course of action these officers took shouldn't be defended or condoned or simply explained away by anyone.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:56 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
That's the entire point of me posting in this thread.
So, if they had only shot him 2 times and killed him, then it wouldn't be murder? Because at one time you argued that it was murder because of the number of shots.
quote:
For you idiots to understand that this is an excessive use of force, and the course of action these officers took shouldn't be defended or condoned or simply explained away by anyone
1. If you want to be taken seriously, you should probably stop using ad hominems in every post.
2. At what point did it become excessive?
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 4:58 pm
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:56 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
Yep hes done a complete 180, or 360, or something..... Hes not even sure what hes arguing about anymore
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:57 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
We know he wanted them to shoot him. We don't know the extent he is willing to go to make that happen.
You don't know what you don't know.
Assuming things, instead of trying to deescalate, leaves people dead.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:59 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
You don't know what you don't know
And you obviously don't know what is legally allowed for self defense.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 4:59 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
You have to place some blame on the onlookers here. They knew what was gonna happen, they could have settled the guy down. They were looking for a show and got one.
Personally I think they took too many shots, but with my lil boy at home I prob would have done the same thing.
It still falls back on the instigator. He was on a kamikaze mission. But with America these days it's someone else's fault as always.
Personally I think they took too many shots, but with my lil boy at home I prob would have done the same thing.
It still falls back on the instigator. He was on a kamikaze mission. But with America these days it's someone else's fault as always.
Posted on 8/22/14 at 5:00 pm to HeadedToTheWoods
quote:
You have to place some blame on the onlookers here. They knew what was gonna happen, they could have settled the guy down. They were looking for a show and got one.
Sure.
Also as I have also said earlier in the thread, the cops should have put two in the chest and paused to reassess. However, that methodology isn't taught these days, which I do believe is a problem.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 5:02 pm
Posted on 8/22/14 at 5:02 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
It becomes excessive when they shot him for simply approaching.
It's even more excessive that both officers shoot multiple rounds.
The final nail in the excessive coffin is shooting him after he's incapacitated and already on the ground.
You've been absolutely hanging on to my use of the word murder, as if it means anything tangible. I used the word murder to describe a killing I feel was absolutely unjust, not the textbook definition that you want to cling to, so I apologize for that.
If he had actually lunged at them, made an attempt to harm them, and they shot him twice and he died...well okay, that's REASONABLE.
What unfolds in the video is absolutely not reasonable.
It's even more excessive that both officers shoot multiple rounds.
The final nail in the excessive coffin is shooting him after he's incapacitated and already on the ground.
You've been absolutely hanging on to my use of the word murder, as if it means anything tangible. I used the word murder to describe a killing I feel was absolutely unjust, not the textbook definition that you want to cling to, so I apologize for that.
If he had actually lunged at them, made an attempt to harm them, and they shot him twice and he died...well okay, that's REASONABLE.
What unfolds in the video is absolutely not reasonable.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 5:07 pm
Posted on 8/22/14 at 5:06 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
It becomes excessive when they shot him for simply approaching.
So, it would be excessive if I came at you with a knife, and you shot and killed me?
The fact that he deliberately ignored multiple verbal orders by the cops, furthermore does not make it excessive. The use of deadly force was not excessive.
quote:
It's even more excessive that both officers shoot multiple rounds.
I've already said this part is excessive.
quote:
If he had actually lunged at them, made an attempt to them harm, and they shot him twice and he died...well okay, that's REASONABLE.
So you can only shoot after somebody attacks you? Again, you don't know the law. You are allowed to shoot to kill at the threat of bodily harm. That can be pre-attack.
This post was edited on 8/22/14 at 5:10 pm
Posted on 8/22/14 at 5:07 pm to Manzielathon
quote:
It becomes excessive when they shot him for simply approaching.
"Simply approaching " ???
you amazingly forgot to mention that he was armed, the officer that fired the first shot already retreated a few steps, and that the officer allowed him as much time as possible to put the weapon down but he didnt....Posted on 8/22/14 at 5:12 pm to GoCrazyAuburn
quote:
So, it would be excessive if I came at you with a knife, and you shot and killed me?
Was the knife out and being held in a manner indicative of someone about to try and kill someone?
quote:
So you can only shoot after somebody attacks you? Again, you don't know the law. You are allowed to kill at the threat of bodily harm. That can be pre-attack.
There was no threat of attack, he walked up to them with a weapon. If a Cop approaches me with a weapon but doesn't actually use it, simply walks towards me yelling shoot me...can I shoot him based on what you are saying is 'the law'?
NO.
So your entire premise of all citizens rights to defending themselves is absolutely asinine.
Clearly you think Cops should be above the same laws that apply to everyone else.
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