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re: Phil Jackson on Kobe and MJ
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:16 pm to Mohamed Ali
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:16 pm to Mohamed Ali
quote:
Did he not mention LBJ because its so obvious he's better than Kobe and MJ?
0
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:17 pm to boXerrumble
Wish I was old enough to have seen enough of Jordan to know if he was really THAT good. I remember being a kid and him playing but I don't really remember specifics and styles until Kobe came on the scene. Kobe is my favorite player ever but I recognize he's not "the best" I've seen in my life although I don't like using that phrasing.
Kobe is the most badass basketball player I've seen. I feel comfortable saying that. Shaq was the most valuable player I've ever seen. He's the only player I've seen run shite like he was playing against college kids. Lebron is the probably the best mix of everything I've seen. When he started shooting the ball well he really became the complete package. People will always hold it against him that his body seems like it was designed with the specific intention of playing basketball. It makes it harder to see the skill.
Kobe is the most badass basketball player I've seen. I feel comfortable saying that. Shaq was the most valuable player I've ever seen. He's the only player I've seen run shite like he was playing against college kids. Lebron is the probably the best mix of everything I've seen. When he started shooting the ball well he really became the complete package. People will always hold it against him that his body seems like it was designed with the specific intention of playing basketball. It makes it harder to see the skill.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:20 pm to shel311
quote:
When Josh Smith retires, I'm going to assume you'll annoint him up there with Scottie Pippen cause he's gonna have some gaudy TOTALS!!!
Sure if he wins 6 rings
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:24 pm to shel311
quote:
MJ isn't superiot to Bill Russell at winning, doesn't stop most everyone realizing the obvious, that MJ was better. Same thing with Lebron/Kobe, it's obivious who is the better player.
It's not just one or the other (rings or stats). It's a combination of both. Will LeBron need 5 rings to pass Kobe? IMO, probably not if he continues putting up numbers like he is. But right now he is firmly behind Kobe in BOTH stats and rings.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:29 pm to shel311
quote:
Ok, so you're on record, whoever Magic and West has as their top 10 is gospel, concrete, and can't be argued against, correct? They can't be wrong, if your top 10 differs, you change your top 10 to match theirs, correct?
You make huge accusations of nothing sometimes.
Jerry West is one of the best basketball minds, general managers, and graders of talent ever in addition to being a legendary player who is underrated on the all-time scale.
I think he has more than proven himself that what he says about the sport should be taken seriously. I would honestly believe just about everything he said with regards to basketball in a serious context.
quote:
That doesn't even get into the obvious biases they'd have towards the Laker player.
???
How do you have bias towards a Laker when only ranking the all-time great Lakers?
From my own eyes, statistics, and learning about the opinions of many others who are much more educated on the subject often have Kobe Bryant as one of the ten greatest players of all-time. As I result, I have formed the opinion that Kobe is top ten. Having a guy like Jerry West agree with my opinion is only a good thing.
As far as the "drive" stuff goes, I think it is most than fair to say that Kobe works about as hard as any player. There are countless anecdotes, hours of video footage, etc of Kobe spending almost every waking hour working on his game. People talk and write about this for a reason. It is because Kobe's work ethic is not really human. It is practically unparalleled in the sports world.
You do not hear these stories about many other players and none to the extreme that you hear about it with Kobe. But go ahead, make an assumption that cannot be proven that some 12th man works just as hard as Kobe, but I can for sure tell you that we would have heard about it.
I am not saying that Kobe has the most "drive" or whatever is being said in this thread, but you will not trust anything unless it comes in a numerical form as a rate statistic.
Feel free to keep fanning the flames of shitty threads by posting lol and
without providing any actual substance as usual.This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:36 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
It's not just one or the other (rings or stats). It's a combination of both. Will LeBron need 5 rings to pass Kobe? IMO, probably not if he continues putting up numbers like he is. But right now he is firmly behind Kobe in BOTH stats and rings.
Really? The rings and total stats obviously, but in career averages and projection, he's going to blow away Kobe. As for rings, we'll see eventually. He doesn't need 5 to be considered better than Kobe. Most people already consider him #2 all time with just 2 rings.
Kobe has 31700 points, 6601 rebounds, 5925 assists, and 2455 combined S+B in 18 seasons
LeBron has 23170 points, 6086 rebounds, 5791 assists, and 2119 combined S+B in 11 seasons
If LeBron averages just 27/6/6, combined 2 S+B this year, and plays every game, his totals will be 25384 points, 6578 rebounds, 6283 assists, and 2283 combined S+B.
So he would pretty much have Kobe's Rebound, Assist, and S+B numbers in 12 seasons as opposed to Kobe's 18, and only short 6k points.
Kobe has a higher "total" count because he's played 7 more seasons than LeBron, but LeBron is the better overall player that we haven't seen in a LONG time.
Who has had a better PER, ortg, drtg, and WS to his team? LeBron
Kobe's BEST PER season was 28.0, LeBron's AVERAGE is 27.8. LeBron's best was 31.7 and that ties Jordan's best
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 12:37 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:36 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:
Vicks Kennel Club
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:37 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:so if you ranked a top 10,would you rank your own or just copy his? That's my point that you avoided.
I would honestly believe just about everything he said with regards to basketball in a serious context.
quote:
How do you have bias towards a Laker when only ranking the all-time great Lakers?
The post I quoted that you followed up on stated that if West said you're top 10,your top 10,that's the point at hand.
quote:You're sure of THAT? I can't even take that serious, fwiw. That's a ridiculous assertion to be that certain of.
But go ahead, make an assumption that cannot be proven that some 12th man works just as hard as Kobe, but I can for sure tell you that we would have heard about it.
quote:you could attempt to read my posts in this thread, that may help out. Just throwing it out there.
but you will not trust anything unless it comes in a numerical form as a rate statistic.
quote:nice one, pretty sure you don't even know my point on the subject but you're acting like you got it all figured out. Again, just read.
Feel free to keep fanning the flames of shitty threads by posting lol and without providing any actual substance as usual.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:38 pm to htran90
quote:I have lebron at 2 right now even if he never played again, but I'm pretty sure that's not the popular opinion.
Most people already consider him #2 all time with just 2 rings.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:42 pm to shel311
quote:
I have lebron at 2 right now even if he never played again
quote:
but I'm pretty sure that's not the popular opinion.
Its also way wrong.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:50 pm to htran90
quote:
Kobe has a higher "total" count because he's played 7 more seasons than LeBron
No shite. And I've stated multiple times in this thread that LeBron is on pace to pass Kobe. I don't understand how some of you can just dismiss longevity of a career as a negative
At what arbitrary number of seasons did LeBron pass Kobe at? Also, I will ask you as I asked someone earlier, has KD passed Kobe? I mean if you extrapolate his numbers for 18 years his will dwarf Kobe's.
What if Andrew Wiggins averages 29, 8, 8 this year on 50% FG%??? If you extrapolate that over 18 years, his numbers will be better than LeBron. Would just 1 season of that make him better than LeBron? Would 5? Would 12? What is the arbitrary number of seasons of stellar averages one must attain?
ETA:
quote:
As for rings, we'll see eventually. He doesn't need 5 to be considered better than Kobe
If he continues putting up these numbers, I agree. But he will need 1 more at least.
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 12:54 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:54 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:no, but he's certainly played the game at a higher level this season than Kobe ever has.
has KD passed Kobe?
It has to be sustained success, and barring injury or something crazy and unexpected, Durant will very likely pass Kobe once his success is sustained over a longer period of time.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:58 pm to lsupride87
quote:
quote:
Has 25 year old ringless KD already passed Kobe by a good bit too?
Not yet, but it is pretty clear he is better. And in 4-5 years I will say yes
Im a huge KD fan, but this statement is retarded. KD will likely go down as a better scorer than kobe, but to say its clear that KD is already better than Kobe as just 25 years old is dumb
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:00 pm to jg8623
quote:Well, you can probably assume KD will get better as guys usually hit their peaks in their late 20s, and KD played better this season than Kobe ever has, that's easily arguable, and I'd almost guess accepted as so by a great majority of people. So i'm not sure how that's retarded.
but to say its clear that KD is already better than Kobe as just 25 years old is dumb
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:03 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
I don't understand how some of you can just dismiss longevity of a career as a negative
Is there ANY indication at all that LeBron is gonna fall off the earth and die tomorrow. He's never had a major injury yet, nor has he shown that his body is deteriorating to say he'll never obtain those numbers. Yes, a freak accident can happen, but this guy doesn't have a deteriorating knee like some player that put up "better numbers than kobe in one season". He's consistently put up better numbers and has been a bigger difference maker on his team than Kobe has.
quote:
At what arbitrary number of seasons did LeBron pass Kobe at? Also, I will ask you as I asked someone earlier, has KD passed Kobe? I mean if you extrapolate his numbers for 18 years his will dwarf Kobe's.
quote:
What if Andrew Wiggins averages 29, 8, 8 this year on 50% FG%??? If you extrapolate that over 18 years, his numbers will be better than LeBron. Would just 1 season of that make him better than LeBron? Would 5? Would 12? What is the arbitrary number of seasons of stellar averages one must attain?
Extrapolating numbers to cover "18 years" is a bit much. If he puts up 27/6/6 this year, he would have already caught up to Kobe in rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks in 12 seasons. If he puts up 27ppg for 3 more seasons, he'd have caught up to kobe in 15 seasons in points and by that time he'd have blown away Kobe's R/A/S/B.
Wiggins averaging that much you could 'extrapolate it' and say yes he'll be better, but that isn't taking into account consistency and production. Players have a fluke high-stat year and fall down to earth. LeBron has averaged those numbers for majority of his career.
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:08 pm to beaverfever
quote:
Wish I was old enough to have seen enough of Jordan to know if he was really THAT good
He was/is the best. No one can really dispute that.
But ever since LBJ came into the league, there's now a legend component to MJ, which is reaching ridiculous levels. The better and better LBJ gets, the more romaticized MJ's career becomes. To hear some tell it, MJ never passed up a game winner, he never missed a game winner, never lost in the playoffs, never even had a bad night.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:09 pm to WG_Tiger23
quote:
quote:
he funny part about those people saying "he'll never win/he chokes/scared of the moment" blah blah blah, instead of admitting they were wrong when Lebron did win, they just g
quote:
Losing three finals when you are supposed to be the Basketball Gods gift to mortals says a lot.
I agree with both of those statements. Lebron definitely proved the haters wrong and is on his way to being one of the greatest to ever play...But losing the way he did to the mavs, boston, and the arse whipping by the spurs this year put a small dent in his GOAT status (Doesnt mean hes not an all time great you LeBron lovers, just talking in terms of greatest player to ever play the game of basketball)
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:09 pm to Goldrush25
quote:Never had a cramp in the NBA Finals!!!
To hear some tell it, MJ never passed up a game winner, he never missed a game winner, never lost in the playoffs, never even had a bad night.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:10 pm to shel311
quote:
It has to be sustained success, and barring injury or something crazy and unexpected, Durant will very likely pass Kobe once his success is sustained over a longer period of time.
HOW LONG??? What is the arbitrary number?!?!?!?
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:11 pm to shel311
quote:
quote:
Most people already consider him #2 all time with just 2 rings.
I have lebron at 2 right now even if he never played again, but I'm pretty sure that's not the popular opinion.
No
Hes on his way to become that, but if he doesnt play another minute then no. Hes already the greatest athlete to play, but not overall player yet which includes both talent and accomplishments
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