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re: Phil Jackson on Kobe and MJ
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:15 pm to PhiTiger1764
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:15 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:That's the 2nd time you have said this sarcastically to try and prove some point, and yet in the same post, you make up your own arbitrary numbers on how many titles Lebron will need to pass Kobe.
HOW LONG??? What is the arbitrary number?!?!?!?
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 1:17 pm
1
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:16 pm to jg8623
quote:Individual accomplishments, which are the better measurement, tend to show him as #2, or you could definitely argue that fairly well at the very least.
which includes both talent and accomplishments
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:17 pm to Goldrush25
quote:
nteresting way of putting it. So he gets credit for single-handedly beating OKC and SAS for his championships then?
Kawhi Leonard played on the same level against lebron for a game or 2, some will say better, so id say he wasnt "unstoppable" the whole series...
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:19 pm to shel311
quote:
Individual accomplishments, which are the better measurement, tend to show him as #2, or you could definitely argue that fairly well at the very least.
Agree, and if it continues which i think it will, he will end up the second best player to ever play
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:20 pm to Vicks Kennel Club
quote:That's one of shell's go-to moves. A laughing emoticon or 2 in response to a legitimate point.
Why are you laughing at that statement? You are aware that Jerry West is one of the greatest GM's and talent evaluators the game has ever seen.
quote:I don't think anyone came even close to saying this. You're putting a lot of words in peoples mouths. West and Magic are knowledgeable guys, posting their opinions doesn't mean we believe everything they say is the gospel.
Ok, so you're on record, whoever Magic and West has as their top 10 is gospel, concrete, and can't be argued against, correct? They can't be wrong, if your top 10 differs, you change your top 10 to match theirs, correct?
quote:They also said he was the greatest Laker, which is really high praise and it's kind of hard to have any bias towards him for being a Laker on that list.
That doesn't even get into the obvious biases they'd have towards the Laker player.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:21 pm to shel311
quote:
That's the 2nd time you have said this sarcastically to try and prove some point.
Not being sarcastic. I really want to know the answer. But that is the 2nd time you have responded and avoided answering it.
quote:
you're the same guy who makes up his own arbitrary numbers on how many titles Lebron will need to pass Kobe.
Pretty much any metric can be construed as arbitrary in some way. But at least I am unbiased and take into consideration a combination of both stats and rings.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:24 pm to Goldrush25
quote:That's when you know you really might be the GOAT. When half the shite that's said about you isn't even true. You reach myth status. Or in the case of Tiger Woods, once you start slipping, an industry dies.
To hear some tell it, MJ never passed up a game winner, he never missed a game winner, never lost in the playoffs, never even had a bad night.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:25 pm to D011ahbi11
quote:Well, you're wrong. First, I quoted the dude's post. Second, if the dude is saying if this guy says a player is top 10, then a player is top 10, I can reasonably assume everything I've assumed. Feel free to tell me which part I incorrectly assumed based on his statement or which part I put words into anyone's mouth.
I don't think anyone came even close to saying this. You're putting a lot of words in peoples mouths
quote:My only guess is you missed the quote in question, that's all I can come up with. Again, I can reasonably assume that that poster was, in fact, saying that their top 10 is gospel. That's exactly what he said, just not in those exactly quotes, no? "if they have you in their top 10, your top 10." Kinda sounds like being taken as gospel to me, wouldn't you agree?
West and Magic are knowledgeable guys, posting their opinions doesn't mean we believe everything they say is the gospel.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:26 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:Sure, the answer is "it depends".
Not being sarcastic. I really want to know the answer. But that is the 2nd time you have responded and avoided answering it.
It depends on who you're comparing and the gulf between the numbers and the years played, lots of things are factored in.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:27 pm to beaverfever
No one is seriously disputing that he's the GOAT.
It just seems to be a defense mechanism created by his fanatics so that LBJ can never be in the same class, even if the statistics say he's right there.
It just seems to be a defense mechanism created by his fanatics so that LBJ can never be in the same class, even if the statistics say he's right there.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:40 pm to shel311
quote:
Well, you're wrong. First, I quoted the dude's post. Second, if the dude is saying if this guy says a player is top 10, then a player is top 10, I can reasonably assume everything I've assumed. Feel free to tell me which part I incorrectly assumed based on his statement or which part I put words into anyone's mouth.
That's not really what he said. He said if you're the greatest Laker of all-time then you're in the top 10. And if Magic and West say you're the greatest Laker then you are. That's not saying their top 10 is the gospel. It is taking their greatest laker as gospel though. Which probably isn't that crazy.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:48 pm to D011ahbi11
quote:
That's not really what he said. He said if you're the greatest Laker of all-time then you're in the top 10. And if Magic and West say you're the greatest Laker then you are. That's not saying their top 10 is the gospel. It is taking their greatest laker as gospel though. Which probably isn't that crazy.
What do you guys expect them to say though? Nah I was better?
This isn't Jordan we're talking about, this is West and Magic who don't have the biggest assole: I'm the greatest attitude.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:50 pm to D011ahbi11
quote:I may have misread it, if so, my bad. Granted, that dude still went a bit too far and was way off on his greater point, and I still wouldn't even agree with that assessment, that if Magic and make a statement, that proves something else, but I'd concede that i misread the initial post.
That's not really what he said. He said if you're the greatest Laker of all-time then you're in the top 10. And if Magic and West say you're the greatest Laker then you are. That's not saying their top 10 is the gospel. It is taking their greatest laker as gospel though. Which probably isn't that crazy.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 1:51 pm to htran90
Kobe isn't the only other great Laker besides themselves.
But FWIW I don't think you have to be a big a-hole to say you were better.
But FWIW I don't think you have to be a big a-hole to say you were better.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 2:35 pm to htran90
quote:
What do you guys expect them to say though? Nah I was better?
Uh well I definitely expected West to say Magic or Kareem was better. But no, he said
quote:
“What he has accomplished with this team, I don’t think there’s any question in my mind at this point in time – because of him being with this team for his whole career – that he has been the greatest Laker player.”
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 7/23/14 at 2:37 pm to shel311
quote:
Granted, that dude still went a bit too far and was way off on his greater point,
That Kobe is Top 10 all time? I think you are in the minority if you disagree with that.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 3:18 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:no, not just that.
That Kobe is Top 10 all time?
Posted on 7/23/14 at 4:41 pm to PhiTiger1764
quote:
Please post the career totals numbers for each player instead of their averages. Also, include Titles won in your analysis. Then we can see how "nuts" it is to think LeBron hasn't passed him yet.
I am glad some one else can understand that averages for one players career that is only half way through compared to another players almost finished career doesn't tell the whole story.
It amazes me how quickly ppl forget how great Kobe was at his prime. Most ppl that are in the "Lebron will be the greatest camp" are just caught up in the moment.
As far as Lebron being in the same discussion as Jordan, that is really hard to contemplate. Jordan has more iconic/clutch moments from the Finals than Lebron has in his career. Maybe the reason for that is Jordan was winning Finals, not losing 3 of 5.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 5:21 pm to aib799
Raw volume stats mean next to nothing when ranking players. I suppose people are entitled to their own opinion but LeBron has had 5 seasons better than Kobe's peak. I personally value prime/peak over longevity.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 5:27 pm to shel311
quote:
so if you ranked a top 10,would you rank your own or just copy his? That's my point that you avoided.
Of course I would make my own, but I would certainly be interested in Jerry West's top 10.
quote:
The post I quoted that you followed up on stated that if West said you're top 10,your top 10,that's the point at hand.
Not really. It is just one piece in a long line of statistical, game watching, and opinions from a variety of basketball experts who tend to put Kobe in the top ten.
Personally, I think the opinion of the guy who scouted Kobe and had to have him out of high school probably knows an infinite more about Kobe and his game than either of could imagine.
quote:
You're sure of THAT? I can't even take that serious, fwiw. That's a ridiculous assertion to be that certain of.
Why even have fricking discussions if you are always going to bring that up?
We may as well may be discussing the existence of god if you are just to say "how can you prove that" every time and dismiss everything not presented in a statistical context.
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