Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS - Page 392 - TigerDroppings.com

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ffishstik
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Kid needs to put down the puppy and update his resumé. Out of work by episode 3, I think!





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ffishstik
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Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


On my reread of AFFC and ADWD focusing on one storyline at a time, on the North storyline (Sam/Jon/Bran), just read the following that takes on a whole different meaning now:

"Even after stumbling into his narrow bed, rest had not come easily. He knew what he would face today, and found himself tossing restlessly as he brooded on Maester Aemon's final words. 'Allow me to give my lord one last piece of counsel', the old man said, 'the same counsel that I once gave my brother when we parted for the last time. He was three-and-thirty when the Great Council chose him to mount the Iron Throne. A man grown with sons of his own, yet in some ways still a boy. Egg had an innocence to him, a sweetness that we all loved. Kill the boy within you, I told him the day I took ship for the Wall. 'It takes a man to rule. An Aegon, not an Egg. Kill the boy and let the man be born.' The old man felt Jon's face. 'You are half the age that Egg was, and your own burden is a crueler one, I fear. You will have little joy of your command, but I think that you have the strength in you to do the things that must be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born'."

Just prior to this, Sam was bringing Jon two books as requested by Maester Aemon. One was "Dragonkin, Being a History of House Targaryen from Exile to Apotheosis, with a Consideration of the Life and Death of Dragons".

These two things actually are presented separately, one in Sam's POV in AFFC and the other from Jon's POV of the exact same encounter in ADWD. When read together, two things jump out. One, before he departs to catch a ship to LEAVE the Wall, he gives Jon the exact same advice that he gives Aegon before he departs to board a ship TO the Wall and leaves him with a book on the Targaryen family tree. I have promised to not refer to Jon as Aegon anymore, so I'll just leave that to y'all.

Also, the "kill the boy and let the man be reborn" line will happen quite literally. Jon the man is alive and well and will be ready to wreck some shite in TWOW.



This post was edited on 7/13 at 8:25 pm


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Azazello
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2011
1010 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


very nice.

I am currently reading an excellent essay called "The great northern conspiracy" and will post it here, but the whole "kill the boy and let the man be born" plays a huge part.







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ladytiger118
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2009
15665 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I love the Great Northern Conspiracy.

TWoW & ADoS are gonna be ASoS on steroids .






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Azazello
Tennessee Fan
Member since Sep 2011
1010 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


The Grand Northern Conspiracy

All 7 parts are included. One of the better reads in regards to the situation in the north.







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ffishstik
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Most of what this guy is saying is in line with most of my theories as well. Very well written, thanks for posting!

One thing that can't be stressed enough is that the impression that Martin will kill any main character at any point is patently false, and this writer does a good of pointing that out. Ned's death was necessary, particularly if the main character is actually Jon. Now, it may appear that he will kill anyone at anytime. After Ned, he hit us with the following:

Arya takes an axe to the back of the head! (oh wait, it was the flat of the axe, she's ok!)

Robb is killed at the RW! (as this writer points out, Robb never even had a single POV chapter)

Catelyn is killed at the RW! (now she's back as Lady Stoneheart)

Bran and Rickon were killed by Theon. (No, these were fakes. Bran and Rickon are still around)

Crap, now they've murdered, Jon! (and ADWD OPENS with Varmyr Sixskins and how Wargs can cheat death, mentions how well Melisandre can perform glamors, gives examples of red priests bringing people back from the dead, and basically gives us numerous options for how Jon can come back, if he even died in the first place).

So, assuming that Jon is back, Ned and Robb are really the only two major protagonists that have truly been killed off. The bad guys are going to die, so they don't count, bet hell, even the Cleganes are still around after we thought they were done.



This post was edited on 7/14 at 1:11 am


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ladytiger118
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2009
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I am almost positive that Sansa and Jon are going to meet again. They are the only 2 of the Stark kids who we never really saw have a dialogue in AGOT. And Sansa's changed a lottttt.

quote:

Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth of gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes. (Sansa VI, AGOT)
[Sansa] had not thought of Jon in ages. He was only her half-brother, but still… With Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her. I am a bastard, too, now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again. But, of course, that could never be. Alayne Stone had no brothers, baseborn or otherwise. (Sansa III, Alayne II, AFFC)


I definitely believe that Ned is the Dumbledore/Obi Wan Kenobi to ASOIAF...he wasn't meant to live for the whole series, and I really like that comparison of Ned to Dumbledore, in that Harry had to fight Voldemort himself; Dumbledore guided him and prepared him for it though. Kind of similar to Obi Wan and Luke as well.

I could definitely see Jon 'meeting' Ned while he is unconscious, like Harry Potter met Dumbledore when he was 'dead'. He had a choice to either die or go back, and he chose to go back and defeat Voldemort. Not sure if this is GRRM's style, but I could see Jon meeting Ned and finding out some truths, but not readily accepting them. I think Bran will meet/see Ned in the next book and possibly find out about Jon's parentage.


The Stark line is going to once again rely on the female line to continue on, similar to the Bael the Bard story.



This post was edited on 7/14 at 1:43 am


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BobBarker
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Bompton, Cali
Member since Nov 2012
5140 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head.


I just started my third reread of the series and couldn't help but smile knowing what ended up happening.






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Boudin
USA Fan
Lafayette
Member since Oct 2006
9198 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I just started my third reread of the series


Good god, man!

I'm struggling to find the time to read the first book. You must have kids!






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Tiger Voodoo
New Orleans Saints Fan
Champions 2003, 2007, 2009, 201fack
Member since Mar 2007
8928 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

The Grand Northern Conspiracy




Thank you so much for posting this Azello. Those excerpts are so spot on and relevant especially Part 2.

I had forgotten tons of those details, specifically about Lady Stoneheart, and don't think I even realized on my reads that Tom O Seven was her spy by what he overheard and then those people subsequently being captured and killed. And Stoneheart then holding Robb's crown just confirms it all.

Very very well done. This even gives me hope that Jamie and Brienne may not be in as dire a situation as I feared if there is indeed some humanity and strategy to what Un-Cat is doing.

Her delivering Robb's decree to Jon Snow would be a beautiful connection of both of their arcs, and in a way, Ned's and Robb's.




quote:

Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born'."


And thank you for posting this ffish. Excellent foreshadowing of what we all hope was set up in the final pages of ADWD.





This post was edited on 7/14 at 9:06 am


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ffishstik
LSU Fan
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Member since Dec 2007
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


After reading the Grand Northern Conspiracy, I really hope that we see Greywater Watch and some Cajuns, er, I mean Crannogmen and alligators (lizard lions)wreaking havoc on Freys and Boltons.





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ladytiger118
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2009
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Me too. I love the Crannogmen and their culture yet the only ones we've ever met are Meera and Jojen.





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Cosmo
UNO Fan
glassman's guest house
Member since Oct 2003
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS








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ffishstik
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2007
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


They say that Greywater Watch moves, so I'm guessing it's like a huge houseboat(?). How crazy would THAT be?!





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Cosmo
UNO Fan
glassman's guest house
Member since Oct 2003
64399 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Naw, its build on the back of a giant turtle.





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ladytiger118
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2009
15665 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I want to know how Greywater Watch moves too. Even the ravens can't find it...but how did Howland even leave in the first place? And why the hell hasn't he left yet? George swears he is going to introduce him soon, so I'm guessing it'll be in the TWOW? Starting to run out of time to introduce him.

I wanna see some frog leg and lizard lion recipes in the next ASOIAF Official Cookbook that Ser Too Fat to Write approves.






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Sid in Lakeshore
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2008
21786 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I always assumed GW was built on floating marsh or some such, but somewhere I read it is a raft up of lashed together floating structures......

I'll try to locate that discussion again.






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Lima Whiskey
Virginia Fan
Member since Apr 2013
873 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Thanks for the conspiracy links. It certainly makes a lot of sense. Martin is running out of time to resolve the war in the north. This would allow him to do it, and do it quickly. Then again, I love the revenge angle and the idea that Manderly's dinner is just the first course.





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glassman
USA Fan
Next to the beer taps at Finn's
Member since Oct 2008
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Then again, I love the revenge angle and the idea that Manderly's dinner is just the first course.


Me too. It allows for the plot to be ramped up in a manner we haven't seen in the the entire series to date.






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ladytiger118
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2009
15665 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Thanks for the conspiracy links. It certainly makes a lot of sense. Martin is running out of time to resolve the war in the north. This would allow him to do it, and do it quickly. Then again, I love the revenge angle and the idea that Manderly's dinner is just the first course.


Agreed. I'm thinking the Freys will be completely toast/extinct in TWoW, and they are already. Walder is gonna dieeee, I'm guessing either at the hands of one of his kids/grandkids/greatgrandkids/bastards, Northerners, or Uncat/Brotherhood.

Would be great to see a Crannogman like Howland kill him, given their bitter rivalry.

ETA: I saw this reply on the IMDb boards about Zimmerman :

quote:

Ned would have put him to the sword for abandoning the Neighborhood Watch after the trial began.

Robb would have put him to the sword for killing a kid.

Robert would have drunken some wine and not register his existence.

Stannis would have chopped off his gun hand, and then hired him to guard Dragonstone.



This post was edited on 7/14 at 10:15 pm


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