QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support) - Page 7 - TigerDroppings.com

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Choctaw
Navy Fan
Pumpin' Sunshine
Member since Jul 2007
49510 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

when you can not extend a defense with the ability to throw the ball down the field and you are in 2 and 3rd and longs much of the time... YES it is equally as bad.


So instead of a sack, where you still have a chance to get the first down or at the least punt, you'd rather just go ahead and give them the ball. alrighty.


quote:

dude.....

I give... you win.



stats outweigh opinion






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chilge1
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
5269 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

if drops were the concern Id agree with your post 100%....but on a scale of 1-10 (1 being most important)drops were a 9.
Face it... he gave us little to be excited about going into 2010 with him under center again.



While what you say is true, I was placing more emphasis on the fact that those receivers were blanketed all game and Toliver wasn't truly an option to be catching the football. It didn't help that he had Mingo in his face all game, either

quote:

going from worst to first huh?? ... I suppose we just have different defenitions of what outlandish means.


The PASSING DEFENSE can be tops in the nation.. not outlandish at all considering they were 29th nationally last year. IMO, Claiborne is an upgrade over Hawkins, Peterson is a year better, and Chad Jones was always weak in coverage.

Just saying it was probably a contributing factor to Jefferson's numbers and visual frustration.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40347 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

naw i think TigerLee is just seeing what he wants to see


Tigerlee? No way...






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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
North La
Member since Nov 2009
19706 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

So instead of a sack, where you still have a chance to get the first down or at the least punt, you'd rather just go ahead and give them the ball. alrighty.


the point is that they are EQUALLY as bad.


quote:

stats outweigh opinion

112th
outweighs????






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Sammobile
New Orleans Saints Fan
Hollywood South
Member since Jan 2009
20132 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

OBUDan

did you notice he is dodging both mine and your post






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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
North La
Member since Nov 2009
19706 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

The PASSING DEFENSE can be tops in the nation..


misunderstood, my bad.

FWIW, JL was under same if not more pressure than JJ in that scrimmage.






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Spirit of Dunson
Columbia Fan
Member since Mar 2007
21476 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

TIGRLEE
you're only seeing what you want to see, man.

just saying.






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OBUDan
LSU Fan
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
40347 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)








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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
North La
Member since Nov 2009
19706 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

you're only seeing what you want to see, man.

just saying.


too much to see






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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89583 posts
 Online 

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


Quarterbacks job is to move the offense consistently and get in the end zone. I say we have two who haven't done this. Stats don't mean shite. Throwing the ball 5 yards when you need ten is an easy completion any day of the week.

Yep, QB is a huge part of the problem. Hopefully it will be fixed this season.



This post was edited on 4/20 at 10:12 pm


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Choctaw
Navy Fan
Pumpin' Sunshine
Member since Jul 2007
49510 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

the point is that they are EQUALLY as bad.



still....no

quote:

112th
outweighs????


Have you already forgotten the point of this thread?

quote:

QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)








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Tigerloo
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
378 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


So, without reading past the fifth post (will do it, but first things first), here's what this tells me:

1) You have more time off than you need,
2) LSU needs to figure out how to hang on to the ball more in 2010,
3) Football is still not here.

Other than that, my only "rant-driven" comment is that your analysis, as you point out, does not take into account that the defenses faced in 2009 really did not have to play the pass, so they were able to load up on the run game, whereas the defenses the 2007 team faced had to play against a well balanced attack, so comparison of the stats does not even begin to tell the real story.

:lol:







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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
North La
Member since Nov 2009
19706 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

still....no


whatever dude, not only did I just state an opinion I backed it up with facts, and you're still not having any of it.


quote:

Have you already forgotten the point of this thread?

is the qb not the most influential/head of the offensive unit?






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matt314
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
142 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


I'll only post one stat... #110. Let's dispense with the myth of the unstoppable '07 o-line.

LSU had Hitt starting at guard in '07. Did Flynn's intangibles make him better? Do you remember Stewart at right tackle. Pretty good run blocker but absolutely awful in pass protection. Guess nobody watched the opener against MSU or the TU and AU game that year. He was a revolving door. And we had the same left tackle in '07 with far less experience.

Same tight end in Richard Dickson with less experience. Lafell with less experience and a major case of the dropsies. Remember the volleyball pass to the defender in the AU game. TT replacing D Byrd and Randle and C Tolliver replacing Doucet, certainly a downgrade there but by '09 our WR's had learned to line up properly. Good job Coach Mac! Scott and Williams were major contributors with less experience. In '09 we still had Trindon for a change of pace along with Shepard, and Dangelo Peterson as the second tight end instead of Zinger. Of course we had Hester in '07 but many think Scott was far better and let's not forget Quinn, who I thought was a big loss but only in the ISO.

So this means that despite having an overall more experienced team (Hitt and Stewart were first year players in '07 and new to the position), two years in the Crowton system, and an easier schedule, it was the loss of Helms, Big Herm, and Quinn that caused us to drop about more about 80 spots in the offensive rankings. We went from one of the most (or the most) prolific offenses in LSU history to one of the absolute worst, and we have the DATA to prove it. Man oh man, Brett, Herm, and Quinn were some good. Surprising that none of them are starting at the next level.

Another possibility might be that it was some of this, included with some clueless coaching, an inability to adjust either due to pigheadedness or personnel limitations, and also a lot of simply atrocious quarterbacking from both JJ and JL. That gets my vote, along with quarterbacking being the major issue.

And I'd wager that if either JJ or JL or both don't have a major epiphany by the time the SEC schedule starts this year that things will get only marginally better. Yes, we'll be better on offense. After all, how much worse can the offense be?

We'll run better (we could have last year with the right guys playing). Our D will keep us close. But we still show no sign of having a quality QB, and all teams will just stack 9 folks up front and good teams will mix in blitzes with zone drops and wait for JJ to finish looking at whatever he looks at when he drops back to sack him or for JL to throw a quick slant behind or over the receiver. Get that red zone D ready Chief!!

And Dan... work up the data between Brian Brohm and Matt Flynn and send it to Mike McCarthy at Green Bay. If you think that your stats can show that JJ is comparable to Flynn wait until he sees how outclassed Matt is by Brian Brohm. Talk about a statistical mismatch! Can't understand why Brohm is the one on the practice squad.

But some guys like McCarthy with an agenda for winning just can't see the facts the data indisputably shows them.






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TIsuGGER
LSU Fan
Member since Apr 2009
2321 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

does not take into account that the defenses faced in 2009 really did not have to play the pass

true

It's really hard to believe that someone went to this much trouble to defend the 112th ranked offense.

And yes, a massive portion of that is on the QB for not instilling fear in the heart of any defense.






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Tigerloo
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
378 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

JJ was sacked 34 times last season.
Flynn was sacked 26 times in 2007.


Now factor in how many more plays Flynn's offense ran and he still took fewer sacks.

Jefferson is clearly not the only problem on the offense, but it's really hard to argue he is on par with Flynn's 2007 performance. Let's face it, you could completely start over on offense and not be much worse than the 2009 tigers (relative to the rest of CFB).






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chilge1
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
5269 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

FWIW, JL was under same if not more pressure than JJ in that scrimmage.


I disagree, but admittedly I had to work during much of the game and could only pick up bits here and there. Any analysis that I've seen has said that Jefferson was under far more pressure, but if you make a contrary claim, I'm not one to dispute it.






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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89583 posts
 Online 

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:


It's really hard to believe that someone went to this much trouble to defend the 112th ranked offense.



Someone is just looking at stats and not watching the damn games. QB play was pathetic the last two years. There is no excuses or a need to make excuses for it. QB play will stand on its own this year.






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TIGRLEE
LSU Fan
North La
Member since Nov 2009
19706 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

I disagree, but admittedly I had to work during much of the game and could only pick up bits here and there. Any analysis that I've seen has said that Jefferson was under far more pressure, but if you make a contrary claim, I'm not one to dispute it.


I wathced it twice, and not only that fowler and co even commented on it more than once(concerning JL)






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chilge1
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2009
5269 posts

re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)


quote:

fowler and co even commented on it more than once


Actually hurts your claim, but w/e


At this point, I go to all home games and watch all away games with the TV muted.






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