re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS

Is it possible that Varys knows them because of his connection with the golden company? Daemon Blackfyre was the favorite son. It is possible he had knowledge of Targaryen family secrets. If he told Bittersteel it could be a secret passed down through the Golden Company.

Here was my take on Jamie and Cercei being Aerys bastards from earlier in this thread-

Speaking of Lannisters, does anybody subscribe to the theory that Cersei and Jamie are the children of Aerys Targaryen?

In ADWDs, Ser Barristan and Daenerys had a little chat about the marriage of her parents. He revealed that Aerys never loved his wife, instead lusting after the wife of his King’s Hand, Tywin Lannister. There was a long-standing tradition in Westeros where a noble could claim the right to spend the first night with the bride of his inferior, however this custom was banned ages ago as it was deemed barbaric. On the night of Tywin’s wedding, a drunken Aerys made a joke about claiming Joanna’s first night, much to the dismay of the guests

There are several parallels between the Lannister twins and the Targaryen clan. To start off, there is the excessive sibling-loving, which Cersei, herself, justified as being ‘okay’, since the Targaryens had been fricking each other for all everyone could remember. If the Targaryens could stick it into each other, why could not Jaime stick it in her?

However, it is important to note that this crazy talk might be due to her mental health going berserk, which is ironically another sign of having Targaryen genes. I mean, the house is well-known for producing psychotic broods.

Another big parallel is Cersei’s fascination with fire. We see that from her demented captivation while watching the Tower of the Hand burned down. Of course, being a pyro fanatic is a common trait of the Targaryens.


However, this theory does have a massive downside: Tywin Lannister.

The relationship between the King and his Hand was known to be awfully volatile. Tywin never forgot the Mad King’s lustful jest about his beloved wife, and the former is famous of being extremely protective of his family. It would be almost impossible for Aerys to have gotten near Joanna in any sexual way possible

It seems unlikely for GRRM to reveal yet another plot twist, that really would contribute almost nothing to the overall storyline. The only input that this theory would give to the series, if it proves to be true, would be the ironic revelation of Tyrion as Tywin’s only heir and the rightful lord of Casterly Rock

See, I think Tywin's emphasis on legacy plays right into this theory - would he not bury the shame of the truth as deep as possible, after all, blonde hair is blonde hair...and set to biding his time to exact revenge...attempt at eradicating the Targ line...masking it as "protection" for new King Robert?
The argument was made that Tywin would have killed Aerys immediately...not with Casterly Rock and House Lannister at stake.

The Jaime/ Targ reveal could serve a lot in future - this story implicates need for dragon riders being Targ seeds, also Jaime could end up on the IT, after Aegon and Dany are dead.

Jon Snow won't get it IMO - his role transcends the crown I hope

quote:

---

See, I think Tywin's emphasis on legacy plays right into this theory - would he not bury the shame of the truth as deep as possible, after all, blonde hair is blonde hair...and set to biding his time to exact revenge...attempt at eradicating the Targ line...masking it as "protection" for new King Robert?

---

If Jaime and Cersei are Aerys children, I don't think Tywin would have known. Joanna may have tried to keep it secret from him since it could cause the Lannisters to go to war with the Iron Throne. Joanna was shaken by it I think, and I doubt she ever returned with Tywin to court. It was the mere jest that pissed of Tywin. Plus this reaffirms Tywin's blindness to his children.

quote:

---

The Jaime/ Targ reveal could serve a lot in future - this story implicates need for dragon riders being Targ seeds, also Jaime could end up on the IT, after Aegon and Dany are dead.

---

Yeah, unlike Tyrion/Tywin theory, which lets Tyrion off the hook for killing his father and also completely justifies Tywin's horrible treatment of Tyrion, Jaime/Aerys has merit which wouldn't destroy the relationship between Tywin and Jaime and really just confirms it. Tywin never saw Jaime for the man he actually was, or at least refused to. Tywin always told himself and Jaime that he was him in younger form, except more handsome and better with a sword. Jaime has really almost nothing in common with his father, and any natural cruelty by Jaime I think is rather forced by trying to live up to his father's reputation (this comes completely natural to Tyrion though).

It also shows another reason why Aerys wouldn't have married Rhaegar to Cersei, since Aerys own little inside joke is that Cersei is a bastard and not worthy for his true born son. It also makes Aerys treatment of Jaime that much more horrible and shows how mad he really is. The irony behind "Bring me your father's head" would be great as well.

Plus what would it mean for Jaime as a character if he found out about this? It would most certainly come from Ser Ilyn. I doubt Jaime would really care all that much on being a bastard, but would be traumatized that Aerys blood runs through his veins. Once Jaime accepts this about himself, I think he'd join Aegon to make up for not saving Rhaegar's wife and child. I think he would tell Aegon to spare Tommen and to legitimize him as Tommen Lannister and Lord of Casterly Rock. Aegon will agree and welcome Jaime into his service.

Aegon invades King's Landing, and Jaime sneaks into the Red Keep with Varys help in order to save Tommen from Cersei. He finds Cersei (who I don't think I need to go into detail about her Targaryen similarities) in the throne room with a dead Tommen on the floor, just having been poisoned by her. Cersei is delighted to see him, saying she knew all along that they would die together. Jaime then asks her if she knows why he actually killed the Mad King. Cersei will say for the sake of their family, but Jaime then goes into detail why he killed him. Slowly but surely she begins to realize that Jaime is here to kill her and that she herself has turned into the Mad Queen. Jaime will also reveal that they are Aerys' bastard children, that she took after their father, and that he secured Tommen's life and title as Lord of Casterly Rock. Jaime then strangles her to death.

Once Aegon sits on the Iron Throne, both Jaime and Connington will realize that something is amiss. I think Connington will figure out that Aegon is not who he thinks he is and also thanks to a letter straight from Jon, he will figure out that Jon is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's true born son. He will only be able to tell Jaime, who then flees the Red Keep for the North where the Rightful King of Westeros is to actually save the Kingdom.



But Jaime would be a bastard son and a Kingsguard, so I don't think he has any claim to the throne regardless of being Aerys' son.

quote:

---

Jon Snow won't get it IMO - his role transcends the crown I hope

---

I agree that his role transcends the crown, and he won't even think of becoming King until the Others are ultimately defeated, and will shun the idea from some of the people who tell him to take up the idea. I think that once Jon defeats the Others and saves the realm, everyone who doesn't have marriage ties to Aegon will betray him immediately and basically force Jon onto the Iron Throne. As Varys said about Aegon, "Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them." I don't think that phrase describes Aegon all that well, but certainly would describe Jon's.

Which scene are you referring to?

This scene

quote:

---

It also shows another reason why Aerys wouldn't have married Rhaegar to Cersei, since Aerys own little inside joke is that Cersei is a bastard and not worthy for his true born son.

---

Excellent fricking point.

I had considered the fact that Tywin never knew- unless told by Joanna on her deathbed, but why would she?

Also, isn't it Tywin's POV that we hear why Ser Illyn lost his tongue? The comment about Tywin ruling...maybe he let slip the Joanna thing...

But then again, the level of revenge he took on wiping House Targ out seems excessive...but could be regularTywin efficiency.


I still like Jon Snow as The Great Other.
Talk about a 2Phat twist of the knife in our guts.
Mel sees Snow (or snow) in the flames, but what does it mean?
It wouldn't break my heart at all if this doesn't happen, of course.

ETA: In fairness, Jon may sit the IT for a spell, if only to protect it for the rightful heir - whichever that is who survives at that point.
By law, at the current time, it's still Stannis.

quote:

---

I took that more as Jaime being a douche and making fun of him/the Watch.

---

If anything, Jaime sympathizes with Jon because he knows what it's like to serve for life in a non-so-elite force; the Kingsguard in recent years, aside from Selmy, is just a shell of its former self.

Littlefinger, is that you??

quote:

---

I took that more as Jaime being a douche and making fun of him/the Watch.

---

You may think that, but Jaime was being no more of a dick to Jon than Tyrion was. Jaime knows what that vow means, and he sees his own as worthless and terrible. He feels that he ought to warn Jon on what he'll actually be doing. Jaime may have thought of it as a kindness, and that if he decides to abandon the Watch before saying his vows, he may come to thank Jaime for planting that thought in his mind.