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Too many people are traveling, and it is ruining travel.

Posted on 10/28/23 at 2:37 pm
Posted by Slippy
Across the rivah
Member since Aug 2005
6581 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 2:37 pm
I found this column on Vox (which I typically hate), and read it with interest because of my experience in Italy last week. I think the piece is spot on.

I went to Rome and Florence with my wife in mid-October. There were simply too many people there to reasonably enjoy it. Mostly Americans, but also lots of Germans and French, and I think half the nation of Japan was in Rome. Our 3-hour “skip the line” tour of the Vatican was not fun. There were tens of thousands of people skipping the line. They herded us through the museums so fast that we had no time to enjoy anything. Standing in the Sistine Chapel, a lifelong dream of mine, was a huge disappointment as we were crammed in there with so many people and then hustled out. So yeah, I think much of Europe is overtraveled and I’m gonna think hard about my next trip.

quote:

Many Americans, in much the same way we’ve grown accustomed to cheap products that arrive within 24 hours or less, have an unsavory tendency to feel as though we are owed a fabulous, friction-free time simply because we’ve spent enough money and energy planning to have a fabulous, friction-free time. Cottage industries and corners of the internet have sprung up to reinforce this illusion: No matter where in the world you go, especially as an American leisure tourist, absolutely every choice can be made for you. On TikTok, you can copy painfully intricate spreadsheets and decks promising you the “BEST SUMMER EUROPE TRIP EVER.” Startup apps like Postcard and Camber allow you to copy other people’s saved location pins and follow their itineraries like treasure maps. Publications and influencers compete to offer you the dreamiest-sounding getaways, guiding you to each trendy restaurant and café and what to order there. Some people are even letting ChatGPT plan their vacations. It’s an almost sports-like pastime to reference every possible available recommendation and “best of” list and cobble together a bulletproof itinerary, an activity I’ve engaged in many times, sometimes with great pleasure. But it all ends the same: with thousands of people doing the same things, in the same places, at the same times.


quote:

More people are traveling because they can, a direct result of policy changes on a governmental and corporate level: the rise of online travel agencies like Expedia and Viator that make vacation planning as easy as online shopping, the slackening of visa requirements for foreigners and “digital nomads” who buy local real estate (many of whom promptly renovate them into cookie-cutter Airbnbs), deregulation of the airline industry, the popularity of user-generated, algorithmically ranked “best of” travel recommendations, a capitalist global economy that keeps developing countries’ currencies low and therefore favorable to people from richer nations, and the widespread adoption of remote work, to name a few. That there is not enough space at the restaurants we want to eat at, that the must-see museums sell out weeks in advance, these are not the fault of the individual travelers clamoring to go there, they’re the result of explicit decisions made by governments and corporations.



https://www.vox.com/culture/23798890/american-tourists-travel-trends-vacation-optimization
This post was edited on 10/28/23 at 2:40 pm
Posted by Zappas Stache
Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Member since Apr 2009
38690 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 3:20 pm to
quote:

went to Rome and Florence


Two of the most touristed cities in the world and you were contributing to what you dislike. There are plenty of other, less touristed places to visit. Like Bourdain used to say, be a traveler, not a tourist.
This post was edited on 10/28/23 at 3:22 pm
Posted by Slippy
Across the rivah
Member since Aug 2005
6581 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

Two of the most touristed cities in the world and you were contributing to what you dislike.


No doubt. But I had been promising this trip to my wife for an over a decade. Had to do it. Plus, every Catholic needs to see St. Peter’s before he dies. And we did the scavi tour. Made all the other crap worth it.
Posted by wiltznucs
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
8966 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 4:10 pm to
IMHO…. We’re only a year away from this no longer being an issue. The data is pretty clear that many of those traveling are going into significant credit card debt to do so. Even the airlines are expecting serious pullback which is why we’re seeing travel deals popping up left and right. They know the gig is about to be up.
Posted by speckledawg
Somewhere Salty
Member since Nov 2016
3918 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 4:35 pm to
quote:

So yeah, I think much of Europe is overtraveled and I’m gonna think hard about my next trip


Shoulder season is always our plan for most any Euro travel.
Posted by AbitaFan08
Boston, MA
Member since Apr 2008
26574 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 5:02 pm to
quote:

I went to Rome and Florence with my wife in mid-October. There were simply too many people there to reasonably enjoy it.


Going to Rome and Florence and complaining about the crowds is like going to Disney and being surprised at the number of fat people.
Posted by BlackCoffeeKid
Member since Mar 2016
11714 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 5:04 pm to
Had a similar feeling this past May in Porto and Bilbao… just too many people to properly enjoy it. Pretty much made the decision to vacation to more remote locations in the future because of it.
Posted by HoustonGumbeauxGuy
Member since Jul 2011
29518 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 5:48 pm to
quote:

Like Bourdain used to say, be a traveler, not a tourist


LOVE THIS
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39582 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 6:51 pm to
Sounds incredibly selfish.

It's OK if I travel, but if other people do it's a travesty.

This isn't a unique response to things like this, it happens all the time. Like the old joke about being a fan of a band before everyone else.


This person would complain if everyone was able to get a Harvard education, even if the instruction quality stayed the same. It's the exclusivity that they want, not the actual thing they are doing/buying.

quote:

No matter where in the world you go, especially as an American leisure tourist, absolutely every choice can be made for you. On TikTok, you can copy painfully intricate spreadsheets and decks promising you the “BEST SUMMER EUROPE TRIP EVER.” Startup apps like Postcard and Camber allow you to copy other people’s saved location pins and follow their itineraries like treasure maps


What does this person think travel agents were doing in the 80s? Sending every customer on a completely unique itinerary?

Old media/journalists really hate the fact they can't gatekeep information any more.
This post was edited on 10/28/23 at 7:03 pm
Posted by Corn Dawg Nation
Member since Oct 2009
3530 posts
Posted on 10/28/23 at 8:38 pm to
quote:

Plus, every Catholic needs to see St. Peter’s before he dies.


What do you mean by this? Thanks
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17854 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 7:27 am to
Americans couldn't go to Europe for a while, then there were mask and vaccination mandates, and there was also the risk of a negative test delaying entry back into the US.

So, there's been a huge boom in travel to Europe. In contrast, the domestic destinations that were overcrowded during the pandemic, such as Hawaii and Orlando, have seen extremely low numbers lately.
Posted by makersmark1
earth
Member since Oct 2011
15853 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 7:50 am to
“Nobody goes there anymore. It’s too crowded.”

Yogi Berra
Posted by nicholastiger
Member since Jan 2004
42611 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 8:22 am to
Blame covid
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39582 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 9:45 am to
quote:

Americans couldn't go to Europe for a while, then there were mask and vaccination mandates, and there was also the risk of a negative test delaying entry back into the US.

So, there's been a huge boom in travel to Europe. In contrast, the domestic destinations that were overcrowded during the pandemic, such as Hawaii and Orlando, have seen extremely low numbers lately.


I inadvertently nailed this by going to Croatia during COVID and Hawaii this summer. It was definitely quiet on both trips.

I'm sure my luck will end abruptly going to Japan in April, but I had that booked for 2020 and making it up now.
This post was edited on 10/29/23 at 9:46 am
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
39582 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 9:49 am to
quote:

Pretty much made the decision to vacation to more remote locations in the future because of it.


One of the strangest things (perception and statistics) is Americans are usually pretty high in total numbers in visiting some of the far flung places. For example, I think we're in the Top 3 for visiting India.

But if you were at a dinner party, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who has been.

Couple this with the fact that some of these places are heavily traveled by say, Europeans, Australians, and Chinese you will simultaneously be in a busy place but also a place no one you know has been. It's weird.
This post was edited on 10/29/23 at 9:50 am
Posted by Tigris
Mexican Home
Member since Jul 2005
12358 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 9:53 am to
Great quote from David Foster Wallace:

quote:

To be a mass tourist, for me, is to become a pure late-date American: alien, ignorant, greedy for something you cannot ever have, disappointed in a way you can never admit. It is to spoil, by way of sheer ontology, the very unspoiledness you are there to experience. It is to impose yourself on places that in all noneconomic ways would be better, realer, without you. It is, in lines and gridlock and transaction after transaction, to confront a dimension of yourself that is as inescapable as it is painful: As a tourist, you become economically significant but existentially loathsome, an insect on a dead thing.
Posted by BayouFann
CenLa
Member since Jun 2012
6868 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 10:18 am to
Go away from the beaten path!! It’s really that simple.
Posted by BlackCoffeeKid
Member since Mar 2016
11714 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 10:31 am to
quote:

a tourist, you become economically significant but existentially loathsome, an insect on a dead thing.

I always appreciated when Bourdain would refuse to give the name/location of a place he would eat at because he knew it would ruin the sanctity of it.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37280 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 11:15 am to
Yes.

And every tourist place is turning into the same experience with different trappings.

Seeing Chinese made trinkets in Italy was pretty depressing.
Posted by bluestem75
Dallas, TX
Member since Oct 2007
3229 posts
Posted on 10/29/23 at 12:18 pm to
quote:

To be a mass tourist, for me, is to become a pure late-date American: alien, ignorant, greedy for something you cannot ever have,


Apparently, they can have it because they are traveling there.

That’s what travel is. Going to see a place that is different from where someone lives in order to experience it in person.

How are they supposed to become less ignorant about other places and cultures? By staying at home?

This statement is as illogical and vapid as it condescending and elitist.
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