re: Atlanta United

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i'm not the one who tried to pigeonhole the simple meaning of the word club. that was just the dumbest thing i've read.


how long have you been following soccer, serious question.

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a good while. why? If you can't wrap your head around the fact that MLS teams are clubs i cant help you. Just because they aren't structured the way you want your perfect idea of a club structure doesnt mean they're not clubs. you should probably just quit.

Do you know why the san diego padres are a club? Because they're a sporting team and they say they're a club. If you can't understand that simple concept then I'm sorry. I can only explain common sense so many times, i'm not gonna bother doing it again.

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American sporting culture is entirely different than the world. We like our closed systems. we don't give a shite about the minor leagues. MLS/SUM is simply following the NFL business model

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The problem with this mentality is that, unlike the big 4 American Leagues, MLS competes in a global market. A global market in which almost everyone else uses an open pyramid. We can all have our personal preferences as to which we like better and that's fine, but what can't be debated is that from a development standpoint, an open pyramid does a much better job incentivizing clubs to develop better teams and better players.

The consequence of that is twofold:

firstly because the open pyramid structure is developing a better product simply by the nature of pro/rel and champions league qualification money, consumers will continue to be attracted to that product over the domestic one, which will continue to limit the potential growth of our domestic league.

secondly, the USMNT will continue to be stifled because our domestic league is inherently inferior in terms of development, and our domestic teams will continue to struggle in cross national competitions like the CONCACAF CL and potentially a Copa Libertadores down the line.

if I was trying to be a dick I would say all MLS games are exhibitions as all the players on the field are paid by the same entity.

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Are you seriously going to tell me MLS teams are clubs?

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Sure. There are plenty of other context to use the word club similarly.

Local 4-H clubs are all part of the overarching system, but are run locally. Clubs within high schools are all part of the same high school, but distinctly separate things.

I understand you are trolling, but you aren't even winning.

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Atlanta United

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I am curious to see how the South supports the new team. I am glad that they got a team. Am hoping for St. Louis next. Think it makes a lot of sense with natural rivalries for Chicago Fire and Sporting KC

This is incredibly pedantic, if I was being a dick I would point out that sporting events only have the meaning and value that each person assigns to them. I will now argue that only amateur sports are not exhibitions, as all professional matches are exhibitions put on to further someone's financial interests. See, pedantry is fun!

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I will now argue that only amateur sports are not exhibitions, as all professional matches are exhibitions put on to further someone's financial interests.

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In the strictest sense, this is probably true. Although most clubs overseas make little to no profit.

ETA: Although two teams with actual independence from one another is, by definition, more pure competition than a system like MLS where no independence exists. That said there's no question LSU-Auburn is more pure than Cowboys-Packers.

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Very few people would argue MLS is doing everything it can to be the best possible league it could be at this very moment, but thats true of any sporting venture as "best possible league" is subjective and owners long term and financial interests will always take some precedent. What is not debatable is that before and after MLS, soccer leagues in this country have been mostly poorly run, mediocre affairs with no long term outlook. That extends outside of soccer as well, look at the many pro football, basketball, baseball, etc. leagues that haven't made it over the past century. It is an overwhelming majority.

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I guess the difference is that rather than just being happy with whatever I get, I want better for us as fans. Right now MLS is giving me absolutely no reason to pay attention to their product over what I can watch in the top 3 or 4 European leagues. That's a shame because I really want soccer to be all it can be in this country. That's what this is all about.

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Pro/rel wouldn't change that

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over time I think it would help a good bit because it would improve development and overall play.

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Without UCL, the only thing we could offer would be massive contracts and we can't sustain that.

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If they combine the CONCACAF CL and Copa Libertadores, which they are talking about at the moment, I think that could (in time) rival the UCL.

Lots of people are happy with it though, doesn't mean it's settling, they just have different interest/priorities/perceptions. Some people value being able to attend matches (at reasonable prices at that), MLS today checks that box, and in some places (Seattle, Portland, Orlando , etc.) Provides an experience that is internationally competitive. Some people are happy with the slow growth because they have the perspective of seeing NASL fold, and other soccer leagues as well (not to mention the XFL, various arena leagues, countless baseball leagues, most of the ABA, and so on).

The end game is, you think MLS should go open pyramid, which is not going to happen. I'd admit it be neat on some level, but would also probably hurt financial investment as risk would increase for owners. Maybe long term that would work out, I have my doubts though. You think MLS must compete for soccer viewers globally and that straight up isn't true. You can count on one hand how many domestic football leagues that are internationally competitive for viewers and their dollars. MLS isn't breaking that hegemony. MLS has to compete domestically first, and an open pyramid has no purchase here. A minor league system a la MLB is the best of all worlds (and you can even expand the US open cup, add group stages, whatever to provide more inter division competition).

TL:DR I just played myself typing all that to a guy who thinks MLS is some black helicopters tax shelter