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Zeke Emanuel and Rand Paul should talk subscription based health care

Posted on 2/22/17 at 10:49 am
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 10:49 am
I heard the author of ACA on Maria Bartiromo's show this weekend and I agree with him on one very important point. He said there needs to be a steady stream of income to hospitals---basically subscription based pricing.

Those who have read my post on the subject know that I have said for years that we have to change the pricing model for health care and one good change wold be to have subscription based care.

I think if Rand Paul would modify his bill a little to encourage subscription based hospital care we would have a good health plan. Wouldn't be great if Emanuel and Paul were in agreement?
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140464 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 10:55 am to
What do you mean by subscription based?

I pay a monthly fee for the right to get care at hospital X?
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 10:59 am to
Exactly--no more fee for service.

The rest of your care would be how you decide to buy it. Either through insurance or cash. Insurance could offer, for example, a rider letting you go to a specialized hospital if your subscribed hospital did not offer the care you needed.
Posted by TrebleHook
Member since Jun 2016
1356 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 11:50 am to
What about the people who don't subscribe and can't afford care?
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14964 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 11:55 am to
quote:

Those who have read my post on the subject know that I have said for years that we have to change the pricing model for health care and one good change wold be to have subscription based care. 



That would be good until the hospital had a bad year and ran out of money- they operate on very slim margins as is. Then what? Extra charges apply?
They shut their doors until they can operate again/up the subscription cost at the next open enrollment period?
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

That would be good until the hospital had a bad year and ran out of money- they operate on very slim margins as is. Then what? Extra charges apply?
They shut their doors until they can operate again/up the subscription cost at the next open enrollment period?


The same thing as happens when any business closes. You would simply shop for another subscription.

What happens today? They close today.

I don't see why there needs to be enrollment periods. Sign up anytime.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

What about the people who don't subscribe and can't afford care?


What about them? What about the people today that won't even enroll in medicaid?
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14964 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:22 pm to
quote:

The same thing as happens when any business closes. You would simply shop for another subscription. 

What happens today? They close today. 


So you suggest that in rural areas of the USA, hospitals should, by law, charge a nominal fee instead of charging for the services they provide and if several high-demand years follow each other, they should have no way to recover the income they would have otherwise been able to charge for, so now the one hospital in a 30 mile radius closes?
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

What about them?
Seems like it might lead to a chain reaction where hospitals in poor areas who don't get enough paying subscriptions to offset the cost of EMTALA-mandated ER care fail, thus sending those costs to the next-nearest hospital, etc.
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14496 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:30 pm to
How is this different than insurance?
Posted by Kafkas father
Member since Aug 2016
1124 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

How is this different than insurance?


Because it provides a consistent flow of cash to the Hospitals and staff.

No more waiting around on the middle man (insurance) to pay the bills. It's a good idea IMO. I'm just not sure how the hospitals in poor areas make it.
It kind of sets up a natural class bias to health care.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

So you suggest that in rural areas of the USA, hospitals should, by law, charge a nominal fee instead of charging for the services they provide and if several high-demand years follow each other, they should have no way to recover the income they would have otherwise been able to charge for, so now the one hospital in a 30 mile radius closes?


No

What do you suggest? What happens today when they close? The same would happen under subscription.

Why do you oppose a hospital charging subscriptions?


Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 1:02 pm to
quote:

Because it provides a consistent flow of cash to the Hospitals and staff.

No more waiting around on the middle man (insurance) to pay the bills. It's a good idea IMO. I'm just not sure how the hospitals in poor areas make it.
It kind of sets up a natural class bias to health care.


That is right about cash flow.

Why it matters if it is rural or it is urban is unclear to me.

Sounds like people are dreaming up problems that will probably never happen.
Posted by el Gaucho
He/They
Member since Dec 2010
52996 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 1:04 pm to
I think we should make it legal for hospitals to not treat people who can't pay
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140464 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:15 pm to
That's basically a capitated model and only works if that hospital has a healthy population.

It's not the perfection you seek. It's actually not even close.

Would you be assigned to a hospital based on where you live?
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140464 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:16 pm to
quote:

Why it matters if it is rural or it is urban is unclear to me.


It matters only if the health status of either population is different.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
140464 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

Seems like it might lead to a chain reaction where hospitals in poor areas who don't get enough paying subscriptions to offset the cost of EMTALA-mandated ER care fail, thus sending those costs to the next-nearest hospital, etc.


There is no might to it.
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14964 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:21 pm to
quote:

Why do you oppose a hospital charging subscriptions? 


Because I think it's more efficient to bill for services as/after they happen instead of billing some random projection and hoping you're right with no way to recover unforeseen costs (disease outbreak) other than cutting services.

Why do you oppose a hospital billing for services rendered?
Posted by Hopeful Doc
Member since Sep 2010
14964 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:30 pm to
quote:

Why it matters if it is rural or it is urban is unclear to me


Smaller populations served means bigger variations in costs and capital. On a fixed revenue stream, it's much easier to go way over/under, again in the setting of some form of outbreak, a common one being an active flu season with poor immunization rates/poor match to circulating strains.
Currently, these hospitals bill more for the people they see. Thus, when their costs go up for taking in more patients, their income goes up because they charge for each patient they see.
These are problems that affect a 50 bed rural hospital much differently than a large, urban 400+ bed center.
Your proposition would probably lead to more dollars in the hospital pocket without dealing with insurance at all, killing an industry entirely.
Of course, the flip side is that the income stream margin is too low, and you cause hospitals to be unable to cover their costs, or raise the price of their buy-in to the point of unaffordability.
Here's the thing- if that hospital has an ER, it has to treat people who show up regardless of their ability to pay. So if the number of people using the ER because they can't pay because it's unaffordable, you'll see skyrocketing prices to be part of the group with dwindling numbers of people buying in.


Paying for what you use yourself just seems to be a better option given the number of small, community hospitals around the US that would likely essentially be driven out of business without being able to bill for what they provide.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/22/17 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

That's basically a capitated model and only works if that hospital has a healthy population.


Why do you think that?

quote:

It's not the perfection you seek. It's actually not even close.


Why would you say that?

quote:

tmckim@ideaoutpost.com


Why would you? You can shop subscription plans.

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