- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: You be the admissions director
Posted on 9/21/14 at 3:59 pm to Zach
Posted on 9/21/14 at 3:59 pm to Zach
quote:
So what does that have to do with content?
Well the content of your post changed after I replied to it already, makes all the difference.
quote:
You're getting your arse whipped on this thread. Please continue.
You start a thread with the premise that Harvard has this "new" type of diversity, which has been documented extensively for 2 weeks in the NYT.......yet refuse to link a single NYT article discussing this "new" diversity, and I'm getting my arse whipped? Are you that ashamed of your source, Zach?
2
Posted on 9/21/14 at 4:06 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Well the content of your post changed after I replied to it already, makes all the difference.
No, it didn't.
quote:
You start a thread with the premise that Harvard has this "new" type of diversity
No, I didn't. Read it again. It's a NYT issue and I used Harvard as an EXAMPLE. So as to make it simple for people like you who aren't too bright.
quote:
yet refuse to link a single NYT article discussing this "new" diversity, and I'm getting my arse whipped? Are you that ashamed of your source, Zach?
All of my sources are the NYT. I'm sorry if you don't read actual newspapers. And now that you are just repeating yourself instead of responding to logic you are getting very boring.
Good night. I'll log on tomorrow morning to continue with your punishment.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 4:13 pm to Zach
quote:
This was a long time ago. Ivy League schools started aff action back in the 70s. I thought you would have known that.
Admission rates were a hell of a lot higher in the 70's (and earlier) than today.
If the conversation is centering on need based aid, I'm not sure what the problem is with students needing aid getting it, especially with the monster endowments some of these schools have.
If the problem is that Harvard just doesn't go down the line and admit every 1600 SAT and 4.0 that applied first and then work their way down, well, all of the national colleges and universities have always been open that they are creating a class and not simply grabbing the highest test scores that apply.
Sometimes that means a poor black girl from the inner city gets in with scores on the lower end of the accepted range. But sometimes that means captain of the crew team at Andover and Harvard legacy Clayton Rockefeller Farnsworth IV gets the same break.
If any particular group has a right to be pissed at that reality, it's the East Asian-American applicants.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 4:16 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:this is true.
The truth is, they choose the better candidate, and if that person cannot afford Harvard, they give them generous need-based aid. There is absolutely nothing wrong or discriminatory about that policy.
But let's be clear, it's a lot easier to be impressive if you are rich.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 4:16 pm to Zach
quote:
No, it didn't.
Yes it did. If you're goal wasn't to change the content, why make the edit? Hmmm....
quote:
No, I didn't. Read it again. It's a NYT issue and I used Harvard as an EXAMPLE. So as to make it simple for people like you who aren't too bright.
The first paragraph of the OP:
quote:
The NYT has been on a 2 week long kick about a new form of diversity at elite colleges. Not race, not gender... Poverty. There aren't enough poor people admitted to Harvard.
Again, maybe if we had a link, it would be a little more clear. But you are ashamed, I get it.
quote:
All of my sources are the NYT.
You should probably get out more then.
quote:
I'm sorry if you don't read actual newspapers.
You're right, I don't read print papers everyday. Mainly because its 2014 and I'm not 75.
quote:
Good night.
Finally. I suggested a nap a long time ago when it was clear your synapses weren't firing optimally in this thread. Rest easy, my friend.
quote:
I'll log on tomorrow morning to continue with your punishment.
AKA you're tired of looking silly, and hope a new day will change things. Probably not. Good luck with that, though
Posted on 9/21/14 at 4:20 pm to Walking the Earth
quote:
If the conversation is centering on need based aid, I'm not sure what the problem is with students needing aid getting it, especially with the monster endowments some of these schools have.
This thread has been a total cluster. Zach hasn't made any sense, and refuses to provide links to the articles that prompted his OP. Instead, he's created this false premise that Ivys like Harvard are using poverty as some new, preferred admission criteria given special weight with no evidence supporting that. Now its his nap time and he is running away. 
Posted on 9/21/14 at 4:23 pm to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
No one with a 22 is getting into Harvard irrespective of financial situation.
If they're a Kennedy they are.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 4:24 pm to Zach
Hey Zach,
I work in higher ed. Actually finishing my doctorate in higher ed admin. And while I have no desire to work in the circles that are the Ivy League institutions, I am very familiar with this need-based aid formula.
I am advising a friend of a friend. The mother barely made it through high school. The daughter is a high school senior with a 175 PSAT (no where close to National Merit honors), but she has a 4.0, will be valedictorian of her class, and made a 32 on the ACT.
The single mom works a couple of low-end jobs just to keep food on the table. She is the perfect candidate for this. She's been denied admission at two Ivies, and I personally paid for her application to Brown, hoping that the lower of the eight would give her a look.
She's a "rural val," which usually the Ivies east up, but she is white. Rhodes looks like a good option, but I'm afraid they aren't going to give her the full ride she needs. If she doesn't get a full ride, she's going to probably be at a junior college. Her mother can't afford a third $75 application fee, so any expense at a state school or otherwise is going to be tough.
But I'm beginning to think the poverty thing is just code word for "We need more Hispanics and African Americans." After the Supreme Court ruling at Michigan - I think folks are gun shy about coming out and saying it.
I work in higher ed. Actually finishing my doctorate in higher ed admin. And while I have no desire to work in the circles that are the Ivy League institutions, I am very familiar with this need-based aid formula.
I am advising a friend of a friend. The mother barely made it through high school. The daughter is a high school senior with a 175 PSAT (no where close to National Merit honors), but she has a 4.0, will be valedictorian of her class, and made a 32 on the ACT.
The single mom works a couple of low-end jobs just to keep food on the table. She is the perfect candidate for this. She's been denied admission at two Ivies, and I personally paid for her application to Brown, hoping that the lower of the eight would give her a look.
She's a "rural val," which usually the Ivies east up, but she is white. Rhodes looks like a good option, but I'm afraid they aren't going to give her the full ride she needs. If she doesn't get a full ride, she's going to probably be at a junior college. Her mother can't afford a third $75 application fee, so any expense at a state school or otherwise is going to be tough.
But I'm beginning to think the poverty thing is just code word for "We need more Hispanics and African Americans." After the Supreme Court ruling at Michigan - I think folks are gun shy about coming out and saying it.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 4:31 pm to onmymedicalgrind
Well, NYT articles aside, if anyone is interested in how things really roll, head over to Amazon.com or your nearest Kindle and hit up "The Price of Admission" by Daniel Golden, from the Wall Street Journal and you will see that favorable admissions policies swing both ways.
A much tougher to find work, and one that gives a broader picture into the process than POA, which centers on how the rich and legacies can really work the system in their favor, is Questions and Admissions: Reflections on 100,000 Admissions Decisions at Stanford, by former admissions dean Jean Fetter.
That book is pretty dated since at the time of writing, Stanford worked strictly within the regular admissions cycle while they now have Early Action but it does give a holistic view of how a class gets created at an elite university, with a diverse class of intellectuals, jocks, rich kids, poor kids, legacies, AA admits and what have you. A little "holier than thou" in some cases (Stanford never buckled to pressure on admits? Really? LOL!) but a good view from the inside.
A much tougher to find work, and one that gives a broader picture into the process than POA, which centers on how the rich and legacies can really work the system in their favor, is Questions and Admissions: Reflections on 100,000 Admissions Decisions at Stanford, by former admissions dean Jean Fetter.
That book is pretty dated since at the time of writing, Stanford worked strictly within the regular admissions cycle while they now have Early Action but it does give a holistic view of how a class gets created at an elite university, with a diverse class of intellectuals, jocks, rich kids, poor kids, legacies, AA admits and what have you. A little "holier than thou" in some cases (Stanford never buckled to pressure on admits? Really? LOL!) but a good view from the inside.
This post was edited on 9/21/14 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 9/21/14 at 5:56 pm to Walking the Earth
you take the 36 over the black, the poor, the girl, the gay, the rural white guy, or anyone else with a 30 ...
the person who is admitted to harvard or mit can seek out the above people on their own if they so desire ...
the person who is admitted to harvard or mit can seek out the above people on their own if they so desire ...
Posted on 9/21/14 at 5:59 pm to anc
quote:
Hey Zach,
I work in higher ed. Actually finishing my doctorate in higher ed admin. And while I have no desire to work in the circles that are the Ivy League institutions, I am very familiar with this need-based aid formula.
I am advising a friend of a friend. The mother barely made it through high school. The daughter is a high school senior with a 175 PSAT (no where close to National Merit honors), but she has a 4.0, will be valedictorian of her class, and made a 32 on the ACT.
The single mom works a couple of low-end jobs just to keep food on the table. She is the perfect candidate for this. She's been denied admission at two Ivies, and I personally paid for her application to Brown, hoping that the lower of the eight would give her a look.
She's a "rural val," which usually the Ivies east up, but she is white. Rhodes looks like a good option, but I'm afraid they aren't going to give her the full ride she needs. If she doesn't get a full ride, she's going to probably be at a junior college. Her mother can't afford a third $75 application fee, so any expense at a state school or otherwise is going to be tough.
But I'm beginning to think the poverty thing is just code word for "We need more Hispanics and African Americans." After the Supreme Court ruling at Michigan - I think folks are gun shy about coming out and saying it.
why are you just now thinking that? ...
can she not get a full ride to a decent state college? ... she doesn't have to attend an ivy league school ...
Posted on 9/21/14 at 6:14 pm to tiderider
quote:
you take the 36 over the black, the poor, the girl, the gay, the rural white guy, or anyone else with a 30 ...
And that's what overwhelmingly happens.
The pure academic superstars with the impeccable extracurriculars and references are the automatic admits.
People that need hooks (legacy, super rich, poor, AA, first in family to college, athletes) to bolster their applications are bumping similar "could go either way" candidates.
Relatively few members of each class, even at the elite universities, are slam dunk, flawless candidates. Those that are almost always get in. I say "almost" because some of them will sometimes play the yield game in order to appeal to US News and World Report and deny a candidate that they are pretty sure would not go there anyway.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 6:37 pm to tiderider
state colleges give very few full rides nowadays. It happens, but it is rare.
I think she can get enough of a scholarship to a state school where the full Pell grant she will qualify for will cover the rest. Dorm expenses have gone up at a higher rate than tuition and it makes it tough. She's 90 miles from the nearest state school, so commuting is not an option.
I think she can get enough of a scholarship to a state school where the full Pell grant she will qualify for will cover the rest. Dorm expenses have gone up at a higher rate than tuition and it makes it tough. She's 90 miles from the nearest state school, so commuting is not an option.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 10:22 pm to anc
quote:
But I'm beginning to think the poverty thing is just code word for "We need more Hispanics and African Americans." After the Supreme Court ruling at Michigan - I think folks are gun shy about coming out and saying it.
This is how I read Zach's OP in the first place. But it was amusing to read their little banter.
Everybody should understand that if you want your kid who is destined to get a 32 on the ACT to get into an ivy, make them play a major sport and hope they're good. they'll end up a millionaire.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 10:58 pm to baybeefeetz
They tried this in NYC but Asians took all the spots so blacks said this was racist. Poor asians are still privileged, since they are smarter and work harder, so they said frick it and are just going to give black kids preferential treatment over Asians and even latinos.
Posted on 9/21/14 at 10:59 pm to Zach
quote:
If John has an ACT of 36 and Jemarkus has one of 26 and is black then Jemarkus gets the scholarship due to aff action (yes, I know the court battles).
Do grades count?
Posted on 9/21/14 at 11:00 pm to Zach
Ying all day
Posted on 9/22/14 at 9:32 am to anc
quote:
But I'm beginning to think the poverty thing is just code word for "We need more Hispanics and African Americans." After the Supreme Court ruling at Michigan - I think folks are gun shy about coming out and saying it.
This is what I alluded to in an earlier post. I think this is a ruse. They don't want a higher percentage of poor students. They want to circumvent court rulings interfering with aff action policies re: blacks and Hispanics.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 9:39 am to onmymedicalgrind
Good morning, Grind.
1. Just because I log off at 5 pm I'm not going to bed. Cooking dinner, watching Judge Judy Tivos with the wife, playing with the dogs and then off to bed at 7.
2. I've thought of a way I can explain why this is not 'need based' as is stuck in your brain. So, pay attention to this illustration:
Let's compare needs based with aff action for blacks. First: Aff action: The College, Wassammata U. requires a 32 on the ACT for admission. With this requirement they end up with 99% white and Asian and 1% black. That's not diversity. So, they lower the requirement for blacks down to 26. This is aff action.
Now, let's look at traditional needs based. They require 32. John and Mary both have 32. John is rich. Mary is poor. John is admitted but must pay. Mary is admitted and gets a needs based scholarship. There is NO lowering of the ACT requirement.
Now, the new Poverty idea. Requirement is 32. Any poor person with a 32 gets a full needs based scholarship. This results in the school being 99% rich and 1% poor because the poor people don't make 32. So, the new diversity program lowers the requirement for the poor down to 26.
It replaces 'black' with 'poor.'
If you still don't understand I can't help you.
1. Just because I log off at 5 pm I'm not going to bed. Cooking dinner, watching Judge Judy Tivos with the wife, playing with the dogs and then off to bed at 7.
2. I've thought of a way I can explain why this is not 'need based' as is stuck in your brain. So, pay attention to this illustration:
Let's compare needs based with aff action for blacks. First: Aff action: The College, Wassammata U. requires a 32 on the ACT for admission. With this requirement they end up with 99% white and Asian and 1% black. That's not diversity. So, they lower the requirement for blacks down to 26. This is aff action.
Now, let's look at traditional needs based. They require 32. John and Mary both have 32. John is rich. Mary is poor. John is admitted but must pay. Mary is admitted and gets a needs based scholarship. There is NO lowering of the ACT requirement.
Now, the new Poverty idea. Requirement is 32. Any poor person with a 32 gets a full needs based scholarship. This results in the school being 99% rich and 1% poor because the poor people don't make 32. So, the new diversity program lowers the requirement for the poor down to 26.
It replaces 'black' with 'poor.'
If you still don't understand I can't help you.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 10:03 am to Zach
Isn't a 36 ACT score "perfect"? Anyone with a perfect ACT score is getting into any school they wish.
My understanding of what Harvard is doing, is different from this. I believe they are dedicating more endowment money to kids who are smart and can handle the academics, but who are poor and cannot afford to attend, who are smart enough to get in, but maybe not smart enough to get a full academic scholarship.
If you had two people who were both on the border of getting in the school, and their files are just about the same, and one is just slightly more qualified than the other, and the other is much poorer, in order to fufill some sort of social goal, I can see them accepting the slightly (but barely) less qualiifed kid who is poor.
My understanding of what Harvard is doing, is different from this. I believe they are dedicating more endowment money to kids who are smart and can handle the academics, but who are poor and cannot afford to attend, who are smart enough to get in, but maybe not smart enough to get a full academic scholarship.
If you had two people who were both on the border of getting in the school, and their files are just about the same, and one is just slightly more qualified than the other, and the other is much poorer, in order to fufill some sort of social goal, I can see them accepting the slightly (but barely) less qualiifed kid who is poor.
Page 3 of 7
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News