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re: Why is Mexico a failed country?
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:29 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:29 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Great explanation IMO by Nial Ferguson in Civilization IMO, which I've mentioned a few times on here. He actually asks why there is no United States of Brazil, but it's a similar question.
He avers that it's culture and economics driven. The Iberians came to the New World looking to plunder and rape the land and Natives. Northern Europeans came to North America for religious freedom or economic opportunity that they didn't previously have. Some of the latter was achieved through slavery and plantations like Latin America, but the bulk of it came through yeoman farmers and later manufacturing. Moreover, you had common law in UK, the Enlightenment primarily in Northern Europe, and the Protestant Work Ethic.
All of these combined, along with some possible geographic advantages, led to a vastly more free, prosperous, and stable country than the one inhabited by our friends south of the border.
He avers that it's culture and economics driven. The Iberians came to the New World looking to plunder and rape the land and Natives. Northern Europeans came to North America for religious freedom or economic opportunity that they didn't previously have. Some of the latter was achieved through slavery and plantations like Latin America, but the bulk of it came through yeoman farmers and later manufacturing. Moreover, you had common law in UK, the Enlightenment primarily in Northern Europe, and the Protestant Work Ethic.
All of these combined, along with some possible geographic advantages, led to a vastly more free, prosperous, and stable country than the one inhabited by our friends south of the border.
This post was edited on 1/25/17 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:29 pm to Masterag
quote:
The rich people take care of themselves and their ilk. Instead of the govt making it an equal playing field for all, they decided to keep the power and resources for themselves instead of giving it to the people. Pancho villa tried, and he was the last one to really make a difference.
In other words, it's basically the equivalent of Apartheid S. Africa that the American Left, for some reason, wants to continually prop up and perpetuate.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:40 pm to Lou Pai
Explain Australia, as a former prison colony.
I can't believe what happened centuries ago is still plaguing Mexico.
What can't they get it together?
I think it is sort of an apartheid situation. White/Spanish elites rule the country and don't really care about the natives. They want them to leave, because they like them less than we do.
I can't believe what happened centuries ago is still plaguing Mexico.
What can't they get it together?
I think it is sort of an apartheid situation. White/Spanish elites rule the country and don't really care about the natives. They want them to leave, because they like them less than we do.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:40 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Why isn't this discussed more? The country is of similar age to the United States. Is geographically diverse. Has natural resources. What is holding them back?
First off: Mexico started with a considerable amount of disadvantages, and early government policies compounded those issues. Imagine the below in the context of history, not just 'now'.
- Mexico has few natural harbors of any size. It costs a lot of start up money to build harbor infrastructure that could be used elsewhere.
- Mexico has no navigable waterways into the interior. This makes goods more expensive because infrastructure must be built, and it makes transportation costs 30 times more expensive in some cases.
- Mexico is dominated by a high interior plateau which is arid and makes poor farmland. This, in combination with the lack of natural transportation, retarded Mexican economic growth since the first settlements.
- Mexico encouraged settlers just like the US, however it instituted land usage policies which made immigration to Mexico from Europe MUCH less attractive than immigration to the US. As a result, the cultural and economic development outside the coasts and Mexico city was nearly non-existent. Due to the lack of settlement, many areas of Mexico remained largely native culture, which was not ready to adapt to changing global conditions, and lacked the cultural knowledge and organization to industrialize. In addition, due to the Mexican electoral system favoring large population centers over rural areas, the government lacked any incentive to improve the countryside.
In contrast, the USA and the various Canadian provinces (which were largely or totally independent of each other until the 1800s, and in Newfoundland's case, the 1900s) possessed large natural transportation networks which provided free initial trade integration and encouraged economic development of the interior(s). Both nations had generous land grant policies and prioritized settlement of vacant areas. In the US's case, the particular sharing of power between the states encouraged more even development, where in Canada's case, the provinces were themselves independent colonies or dominions for most of their history.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:51 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Spanish colonial influence. Similar to why Louisiana is a failure (Louisiana was part of Spain far longer than it was part of France).
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:51 pm to cokebottleag
If you know those things, do you think Mexico's leaders know those things?
Perhaps they should work to change them.
I think the real answer is they like it the way it is. Which is OK.
Our politicians just need to take that in consideration when dealing with them.
Perhaps they should work to change them.
I think the real answer is they like it the way it is. Which is OK.
Our politicians just need to take that in consideration when dealing with them.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:52 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Why is Mexico a failed country?
Explain Australia, as a former prison colony.
I can't believe what happened centuries ago is still plaguing Mexico.
What can't they get it together?
I think it is sort of an apartheid situation. White/Spanish elites rule the country and don't really care about the natives. They want them to leave, because they like them less than we do.
They're not really comparable. Australia was a penal colony for only a short time (and it wasn't a traditional penal colony - more like a way to get skilled people who owed debts to colonize elsewhere), was under English law - the best system in the world for a very long time - during that entire time, and was a part of the British Empire for most of its existence. They also wiped away the relatively small native population.
Mexico was under an official encomienda system for three hundred years and unofficially for another hundred.
Why do you think the American South until very recently lagged behind economically? History matters a lot, and it takes time to overcome it. Also, the bust in the early 80's just killed them. They were doing pretty well until then; they hosted an Olympics and two World Cups.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:55 pm to Jim Rockford
ETA: And I wouldn't call it a failed state. Parts of it essentially lawless, and there's rampant corruption everywhere. OTOH it works well enough for foreign companies to build plants there. A true failed state is one that no one wants to invest in.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:56 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
cokebottleag
That's a really good historical/economic discourse.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 2:59 pm to Lou Pai
It's the Constitution, buddy, imo. And the blessing of the Good Lord for codifying the Idea that God is the giver of all Rights. And that individuals are equal in respect to their treatment re the Rights and Laws that result from the Document.
That our Vision is always ahead of our ability to (perfectly) implement said Vision...says nothing about that particular Vision.
Side note: I went to the WWII Museum in NO yesterday. Hard to bear really. But I never knew that the Japanese feared us (our cultural influence) because of our "materialism and individualism". That was a slap in the face for me. For all honest Americans...we realize that Freedom is highly problematic. And the Founders did note that it (Constitutional Republic) would only work for "a moral and Religious people".
Fascinating. As long as we don't end up in WWIII.
That our Vision is always ahead of our ability to (perfectly) implement said Vision...says nothing about that particular Vision.
Side note: I went to the WWII Museum in NO yesterday. Hard to bear really. But I never knew that the Japanese feared us (our cultural influence) because of our "materialism and individualism". That was a slap in the face for me. For all honest Americans...we realize that Freedom is highly problematic. And the Founders did note that it (Constitutional Republic) would only work for "a moral and Religious people".
Fascinating. As long as we don't end up in WWIII.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:05 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
I think the real answer is they like it the way it is. Which is OK.
Yep. The people with the power own the businesses and have cheap labor. It's a win win for them.
A good Mexican friend of mine comes from a millionaire family. I've spent time with them there and it's unreal. We played golf on his uncle's course which was reserved for five of us for the day. If you're a have you have a lot. If you're a have not you ain't got shite, and other than drugs you probably don't have enough education to make a good living wage.
Furthermore, there is no safety net. It's feast or famine, very little in between. Some can work hard/smart and make it, but that is few and far between and generally those folks have lighter skin.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:07 pm to Masterag
quote:
Some can work hard/smart and make it, but that is few and far between and generally those folks have lighter skin.
There are some people here in America that claim there is systematic racism.
To those people, I tell them they ain't seen shite. Mexico has real racism.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:12 pm to RCDfan1950
quote:
Freedom is highly problematic. And the Founders did note that it (Constitutional Republic) would only work for "a moral and Religious people".
The problematic issue is the natures of govt and individuals. The nature of govt is to suppress freedom to achieve order and control. The nature of the individual human is to be free. That's why people don't like being in jail.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:17 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Corruption, corruption, corruption. Its the problem with most countries that cant get their act together.
Ive been to mexico several times and been stopped by police on several occasions. Always just looking for a bribe. if you dont then you go to the jail and have to pay somebody else a bigger bribe. Its corrupt from top to bottom.
Ive been to mexico several times and been stopped by police on several occasions. Always just looking for a bribe. if you dont then you go to the jail and have to pay somebody else a bigger bribe. Its corrupt from top to bottom.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:20 pm to Texas Weazel
quote:
quote:
Some can work hard/smart and make it, but that is few and far between and generally those folks have lighter skin.
There are some people here in America that claim there is systematic racism.
To those people, I tell them they ain't seen shite. Mexico has real racism.
And Colombia makes both of them look like child's play. If there is a country in the world where the color of your skin matters more than Colombia, I'd like to know who it is. Spanish colonial racial systems were well and truly fricked up, and that legacy is deeply entrenched in those countries. Pablo Escobar does not exist without that system.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:24 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
I watched a video I think featuring Niall Ferguson of the BCC that highlighted this question in a way.
LINK
Found an excerpt:
LINK
Found an excerpt:
quote:
The reason North America’s ex-colonies did so much better than South America’s was because British settlers established a completely different system of property rights and political representation in the North from those built by Spaniards and Portuguese in the South. (The North was an ‘open access order’, rather than a closed one run in the interests of rent-seeking, exclusive elites.)
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:30 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Because Mexico is 82% Catholic compared to 22% in America.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:33 pm to Revelator
quote:
Because Mexico is 82% Catholic compared to 22% in America.
Oh my.
Posted on 1/25/17 at 3:34 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
LOL. ok
Laugh all you want. It's America's Protestant background that made it great.
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