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re: Was Africa better off under European colonial rule?
Posted on 8/28/22 at 12:56 pm to Fat Bastard
Posted on 8/28/22 at 12:56 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:No. VERY few Western Hemisphere slaves originated from that far south. They came from as far north as modern Senegal and as far south as modern Angola.
you are thinking of south africa. the zulus farmed wheat. maybe the Xhosa also
We may just have a definitional problem. By the 1500s, only a TINY fraction of Africans lived a PRIMARILY hunter-gatherer lifestyle … mostly the pygmies and the Khoi-San. The REASON that the Bantu and related peoples came to dominate sub-Saharan Africa was the very FACT that they were farmers and pastoralists, rather than hunter-gatherers. As just an example, Khoi-San type people dominated the entire Eastern half of Africa (living as hunter-gatherers) before the start of the Bantu expansion.
By contrast, the VAST majority of the Bantu-related peoples of West Africa lived in small farming villages, but MOST of them DID supplement by hunting and gathering.
Are we on the same page now?
This post was edited on 8/28/22 at 1:10 pm
1
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:02 pm to sta4ever
quote:
Or it was the European colonists, who put the corruption there in the first place,
What is your excuse for inner cities in America?
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:17 pm to Bayou445
Of course, and the pressure to abandon colonies, leading to their current state of turmoil, is completely by design. This way, their disarray can be easily reorganized as communism, instead of grounded the more difficult conversion from capitalism.
quote:stated goals
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:22 pm to AU86
quote:
What is your excuse for inner cities in America?
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:25 pm to AggieHank86
no, no, no, i am not saying the slaves came from SA. i am saying they DID farm down there and it is widely known.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:26 pm to BigMob
quote:
List the countries that have prospered under African rule as opposed to those that have been Charlie Foxtrots. Also list the US cities that have prospered under the rule of their descendants as opposed to those that have been Charlie Foxtrots.
C on Z you have any input ?
When making this argument to call out the left, it has to specified that you are asking about sub-saharian Africa, cause they'll come back with the northern region like Egypt, knowing that's not what is being referenced but still covers their argument.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:36 pm to Fat Bastard
quote:Agreed, but we missed one another again.
I am not saying the slaves came from SA. i am saying they DID farm down there and it is widely known.
I think we are crossing wires by using the term “hunter-gatherer” differently. I am using it to describe cultures that live PRIMARILY by hunting and gathering, and I think you are also including those that SUPPLEMENT agriculture with hunting and gathering.
By 1500, essentially the only PURE hunter-gatherers anywhere in Africa were the pygmies and the Khoi-San (neither of whom comprised a noticeable percentage of American slaves). MOST of the Bantu-related peoples of West Africa (ancestors of most Western Hemisphere slaves) were PRIMARILY farmers and (to a lesser extent) pastoralists, but most of them SUPPLEMENTED their living with hunting and gathering.
This post was edited on 8/28/22 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:41 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
I think you missed a point that he did not really address.
Arab traders established outposts (later entire cities) in West Africa long before discovery of the Americas, from which they traded both goods and slaves. For the most part, they acquired those slaves from the locals who captured them in wars and in raids. Mostly, they transported those slaves to the Middle East.
Thank you - I am not a student of that era - but this is certainly within my understanding of how things might have been. Just seemed to me to be mostly a factoid not terribly influential on the overall situation.
Slavery was bad. But fixing it is very complex when you rely on mere mortals to accomplish it. I've yet to see anyone outline a workable scheme. I have seen schemes implemented with many people saying = 'that won't work - you will create larger problems as a result' - what we have today in the urban rot is quite dependent on the failed (and mostly corrupt) attempts to "rectify the sins of slavery" undertaken in the past.
- growth of the welfare state
- degeneration of family structure - in all areas, but devastatingly in the black communities
- loss of any sense of personal responsibility or dignity
- deterioration of the educational system
- rise of demands for "equity" and "reparations"
- and a long list of other social ills.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:41 pm to KAGTASTIC
quote:
When making this argument to call out the left, it has to specified that you are asking about sub-saharian Africa, cause they'll come back with the northern region like Egypt, knowing that's not what is being referenced but still covers their argument.
right. but remember you had greeks there also way back to alexander the great. romans. then byzantines were over run by muzzie arabs.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:56 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Slavery was bad. But fixing it is
Lol. Fixing something that hasn't occurred in this country since the 1800's that not a single soul alive is guilty of or was subjected to. Good luck with that.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 1:58 pm to BigMob
Just rip the mask off already. You are letting it slip here and it is not a good look.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:02 pm to Bayou445
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:29 pm to Bayou445
Google Belgium and Congo and then get back to me.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:33 pm to Tantal
quote:
Yes. Every colonized African country went to shite after gaining their independence. Go watch Empire of Dust.
Dude, after Hitler, Leopold was probably the single most genocidal ruler of a Western European country in world history. He was insanely bad.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:40 pm to Bayou445
quote:to be fair to Africa they have never left French rule, most countries in west Africa still use Frances currency the franc, a currency France hasnt used since switching to the euro in 1990's , whoever controls the money controls the people
Was Africa better off under European colonial rule?
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:49 pm to Zach
quote:
There are luxury cities, airports and the govt buildings. However, all of the people are still living in poverty. Like every other Africa country, the back leaders who took over were corrupt and built stuff strictly for the leaders.
Having been there, “luxury” is a stretch.
The civil war ran many of the rural people to city centers. The Angolan government enriched themselves and leveraged the country’s overabundance of natural resources for Chinese concrete construction and the appearance of civilization. It is an absolute shame- could be a fantastic place.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:55 pm to AU86
quote:
What is your excuse for inner cities in America?
The inner cities aren’t corrupt, they’re all just a bunch of idiots over there. It’s well known that the Africans were abused by European colonists. Chinese are doing it now too, but none of this is due to African corruption. It’s due to being poor, uneducated, and having nothing over there that can help them develop.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:56 pm to Bayou445
No. France and England fricked up central Africa and China is picking through the pieces currently.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:57 pm to ElChapo
What corruption are you talking about? I’ve never thought of African countries as corrupt. Just uneducated and poor people. They’re worse off than the Middle East.
Posted on 8/28/22 at 2:59 pm to TrueTiger
I know that, but it’s widely known and accepted, that European colonists stripped them of their resources. Europeans were the ones who were corrupt. Took advantage of poor people. How else do people think they’re supposed to turn out, after being under that kind of rule for all those years?
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