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Started By
Message
re: Update pg 23: Russia,IMO, will default on its sovereign debt within six months
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:03 pm to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:03 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:WRONG AGAIN.
In the 1st reported quarter after he left, they had dropped 5% - $100 Billion,
quote:
(Reuters) - Pacific Investment Management Co., whose co-founder Bill Gross stunningly departed on Sept. 26, said late Friday that the Newport Beach, Calif.-firm had assets under management of $1.876 trillion as of Sept. 30, a 5 percent drop in the third quarter.
LINK
Gross resigned on September 26, 2014. He was not gone a quarter when PIMCO reported the 5% drop in assets in the third quarter. He had only been gone FOUR days.
An investment firm losing 5% of its assets under management in just 3 months is almost unheard of, especially by a firm that has historically been judged by how much its assets have INCREASED each quarter.
Gross knew the assets were flying out the door so he resigned before the third quarter ended, and as the article states, "he was expected to be fired the next day."
quote:
Since Gross's departure, Pimco has seen heavy outflows, with $23.5 billion leaving the Pimco Total Return Fund in September alone.
quote:Look in the mirror at who is making shite up and being ridiculous.
You are just making shite up now and it's ridiculous.
1
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:10 pm to LSURussian
What current numbers do you have? As you have seen from my link, they can withstand 300-500 billion more before they have to even start thinking about cutting staff back. How many more until LITERAL BANKRUPTCY? HMMM? Please use specific numbers when making your outlandish statements.
No it isn't. Why so many ridiculous, unsupported statements from you?
How about this: I'll bet you a PERMA-BAN that when the Q4 numbers are released, PIMCO will be NOWHERE NEAR bankruptcy. (It's a bet that isn't even fair to me since your claim was that IN THE PAST, Gross nearly bankrupted them with his rates bet).
quote:
An investment firm losing 5% of its assets under management in just 3 months is almost unheard of,
No it isn't. Why so many ridiculous, unsupported statements from you?
How about this: I'll bet you a PERMA-BAN that when the Q4 numbers are released, PIMCO will be NOWHERE NEAR bankruptcy. (It's a bet that isn't even fair to me since your claim was that IN THE PAST, Gross nearly bankrupted them with his rates bet).
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:11 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:You conveniently ignored these statements from your link:
Analysts predict they could withstand the loss of another $300-500 Billion before they would eat into the bonus pool or have to reduce staff.
quote:So they lost $100 billion in just 3 months and if they lose another $300-$350 billion (just another 9.5 months at their third quarter rate of loss) they will be in pretty severe financial difficulty. And they lost $48 billion mostly just in October just from one mutual fund.
But even analysts concede they don't know how much PIMCO is losing, because most outside monitoring firms only track mutual fund flows, not institutional. And institutional assets under management account for about two-thirds of the $1.47 trillion Pacific Investment Management Co. officials reported under management from non-affiliated companies as of Sept. 30.
PIMCO had $48 billion in mutual fund outflows in October....
Morningstar Inc. analysts said in a Nov. 10 report that a sustained period of outflows, totaling $300 billion to $350 billion in the next several years, would affect the firm's bonus pool, which could lead to key personnel departures, or force PIMCO to reduce staff.
BTW, thanks for posting that link. It goes further proving my point than it does yours.
ETA: BTW, nowhere in your link does it mention $500 billion loss of assets. It consistently refers to $300 billion to $350 billion. Are you so confused you don't know the difference between "$350 billion" and "$500 billion"???
This post was edited on 12/16/14 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:14 pm to aaronb023
quote:Ah, there he is. I was just referring to you earlier in this thread. Welcome!
aaronb023
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:21 pm to LSURussian
quote:
they will be in pretty severe financial difficulty.
bullshite. They would consider lowering bonuses or laying off staff. The chances of a bankruptcy are effectively nil.
But let's get back to EXPLICITLY what you said: it was that Gross damn near "bankrupted" the firm with his poor rates bets in the 2 years leading up to his departure.
That's a very very odd claim, given the real fact pattern:
quote:
Pacific Investment Management Co. said its assets under management were $1.97 trillion at the end of the second quarter, up from $1.94 trillion at March 31, attributing the increase to market performance and alpha generation.
The firm said third-party client assets accounted for $1.55 trillion of the $1.97 trillion total at June 30.
Pimco said 81% of its assets under management have outperformed their benchmarks on a trailing 12-month basis, and 86% have outperformed their benchmarks on a trailing 3-year basis before fees.
The Wall Street Journal reported last month that the $229 billion Pimco Total Return Fund, the world's largest bond fund, was outpacing two-thirds of rival funds in the second quarter, according to Morningstar Inc. MORN +0.56% data, a big improvement from the first quarter.
So, was Gross responsible for this outperformance or not? You have led us to believe that his poor rate bets were leading to poor performance which was nearly "bankrupting" the firm. As we can see, assets as of July 2014 were very high and trending higher...on the back of strong performance.
You are full of shite
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:24 pm to Big Scrub TX
So you're touting a $30 billion increase in one quarter as being something special while saying losing $100 billion the next quarter is no big deal?! 
Maybe I should expect that from someone who can't tell the difference between $350 billion and $500 billion in his own link. But what's a 40% margin of error for someone as obviously well versed in finance as you?!
You are really strange when it comes to applying logic to finance.
Maybe I should expect that from someone who can't tell the difference between $350 billion and $500 billion in his own link. But what's a 40% margin of error for someone as obviously well versed in finance as you?! You are really strange when it comes to applying logic to finance.
This post was edited on 12/16/14 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:28 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Big Scrub TX
Dude, hit the road. If this thread bothers you, GET OUT.
Christ, what a pain.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:28 pm to LSURussian
quote:
But you have to remember that it was only 18-24 months ago when Gross was still co-CIO at PIMCO when he announced he was shorting US treasuries expecting rates to increase from that point. He damn near bankrupted PIMCO when rates fell even more and have stayed lower than they were when he announced his position.
It doesn't get any clearer than what you typed. You allege EXPLICITLY that this big short treasury bet of Gross's in the past 2 years almost bankrupted PIMCO because it kept going against him. As we know, both assets and performance were off the charts in the lead up to his departure.
You have provided ZERO SUPPORTING EVIDENCE of this preposterous claim and you are now trying to crawfish your way out of it by talking about a potential SEC investigation and his departure. The entirety of your "summary" was that the rate bet itself, IN THE PAST, almost bankrupted the firm. It's demonstrably false.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:32 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:Sid, can you understand what his deal is? I sure can't.
Big Scrub TX
Dude, hit the road. If this thread bothers you, GET OUT.
Christ, what a pain.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:40 pm to LSURussian
I think you are in deeper water than him as far as what you are talking about. He is wading at the edge while you are in the deep end as far as knowledge in this matter.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:40 pm to LSURussian
Just caught up...
What the hell has this turned into?
What the hell has this turned into?
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:44 pm to LSURussian
He's hell-bent on proving you wrong........ in anything. That's all I can figure.
Whatever man.
PIMCO, to bankrupt or not to bankrupt, THAT IS THE QUESTION.
Whatever man.
PIMCO, to bankrupt or not to bankrupt, THAT IS THE QUESTION.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:49 pm to LSURussian
quote:
So you're touting a $30 billion increase in one quarter as being something special while saying losing $100 billion the next quarter is no big deal?! Maybe I should expect that from someone who can't tell the difference between $350 billion and $500 billion in his own link. But what's a 40% margin of error for someone as obviously well versed in finance as you?!
No. I'm saying that the trend was clearly positive in both performance and assets over the same period of time that you allege a massively wrong rates bet "nearly bankrupted" the firm.
quote:
You are really strange when it comes to applying logic to finance.
You are really strange in your willingness to baldly lie out in the open.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:51 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
PIMCO, to bankrupt or not to bankrupt, THAT IS THE QUESTION.
They probably won't go bankrupt. I said "damn near." For a while in the late summer and early fall CNBC was having almost a daily segment on PIMCO's financial problems. There were plenty of talking heads on there prophesying PIMCO was going to have to break up into several companies and get rid of the PIMCO brand just because it had been so tainted from the Gross/El-Alerion drama.
That's where I first learned that Gross was dressing his cat up in human clothes and posting photos of the feline in his online investment newsletter. One guy on there actually said "I'm afraid Bill may have lost his mind."
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:55 pm to ell_13
quote:
Just caught up... What the hell has this turned into?
It's turned into someone finally calling this guy on his bullshite. He's made the absurd claim that Bill Gross's rate bets "nearly bankrupted" PIMCO. This coming in a thread in which credit risk is theoretically credibly discussed.
I can absolutely guarantee that PIMCO did not come within 3000 miles of a BK during the latter part of Gross's reign.
It's perhaps the most preposterous claim I've ever heard anyone make on here regarding the financial markets.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:57 pm to LSURussian
This is a message board.
I understood your comment of Gross nearly bankrupting PIMCO to be a repudiation of his analysis and therefore his credibility on the topic at hand.
NO ONE outside of a very few can possibly know the precise financial condition of PIMCO at any one point in time.
Anyone picking to hone in on the literal wording of that is just choosing to argue for arguments sake.
Anyway, good thread.
I understood your comment of Gross nearly bankrupting PIMCO to be a repudiation of his analysis and therefore his credibility on the topic at hand.
NO ONE outside of a very few can possibly know the precise financial condition of PIMCO at any one point in time.
Anyone picking to hone in on the literal wording of that is just choosing to argue for arguments sake.
Anyway, good thread.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:58 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
Anyone picking to hone in on the literal wording of that is just choosing to argue for arguments sake.
Wow. That's a surprisingly good description of Russian's perpetual MO in ANY thread.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 3:59 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Big Scrub TX
Dude, this is Politalk, not congressional testimony. We don't parse our words that tightly, and we shouldn't have to.
Posted on 12/16/14 at 4:01 pm to LSURussian
quote:
They probably won't go bankrupt. I said "damn near."
And at no point in time were they "damn near".
Posted on 12/16/14 at 4:01 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
I don't have a dog in this hunt. For future reference, if you want to hang on every word I type, please give me forewarning.
I've been known to type fast and loose.
No offense to you.
I've been known to type fast and loose.
No offense to you.
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