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re: To those who think the Garner case cop should've been indicted,
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:13 am to TexasTiger89
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:13 am to TexasTiger89
quote:I've been wondering about this. All the news reports just say "died of a choke hold" and the medical examiner ruled his death a homicide. How the frick can you call cardiac arrest a homicide?
Garner died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance afterward and not from the choke hold. This dude's poor life choices and poor health is what ultimately killed him.
BTW, where did you get the info on the cardiac arrest.
1
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:13 am to C
I'd like to point out that this is exactly the argument that the police Association president made when this story initially happen.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:14 am to bhtigerfan
I research the shite out of that yesterday. He got that from initial reports prior to the release of the autopsy. The source on that was a law-enforcement source. Somehow, and MSNBC story posted yesterday or day before still had reference to cardiac arrest.
But, correct me if I'm wrong, cardiac arrest is like a result of hypoxia.
But, correct me if I'm wrong, cardiac arrest is like a result of hypoxia.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 9:15 am
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:18 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
question it's not about the results so much as the cops ability to foresee the result.
There's a reason there's policy. It's based on an organization's experience, which is broader and more comprehensive than an individual's, and is there to guide the employee in instances just like this.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:19 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
cops ability to foresee the result.
He couldn't foresee severely restricting a man's breathing might lead to death?
Is this the kind of intelligence we're looking for in our police force?
Why didn't he try pepper spray? Or a taser? Or anything other than choking a guy to death?
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:19 am to baybeefeetz
quote:It can be a result of a lack of blood flow or a lack of oxygen. People who get shot often fall into cardiac arrest. Should we not blame the bullet as long as the victim was fat?
But, correct me if I'm wrong, cardiac arrest is like a result of hypoxia.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:20 am to C
quote:
he was not applying pressure to the throat or windpipe... as evidence by him being able to speak.
There is evidence of crush damage to the trachea - cops say EMS did that.
Trial jury.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 9:21 am
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:20 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
That is, say whether a reasonable person in the officer's shoes would have foreseen that garner would die from such a brief choke.
"I can't breathe" maybe should be a hint you're going a little overboard.
Guy was practically begging for his life. You're fricked in the head.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:21 am to mmcgrath
That's not that smart. If you shoot someone, you can reasonably foresee that he will die regardless of how fat he is.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 9:22 am
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:21 am to C
quote:
You could claim the side pressure he was applying restricted blood flow to the brain but he was not applying pressure to the throat or windpipe... as evidence by him being able to speak.
Yes - but when a guy is saying he can't breathe there's something wrong going on. Duh.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:22 am to baybeefeetz
quote:
would you have expected death
The cop jumped on his back and choked him out. They leave him laying there frickING CUFFED knowing he wasn't breathing. The stupid EMS lady knew he was dead and after not getting a pulse tries to tell him to get up.
All of this over a goddamned cig tax.
If you are going to jump on someones back and choke them out you better damn well know all the possible scenarios.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:22 am to SpidermanTUba
Coming from you? Whatever. You need to wake the frick up and realize that you are the absolute equivalent of the dumb fricks on the "right on" on this board. There is an actual discussion going on in this board. Very little name calling. Want to come back when you're ready to engage in it.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 9:27 am
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:23 am to MrLarson
I am with you re ems
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:23 am to baybeefeetz
quote:Um, I'm not an MD, but I think cardiac arrest is usually caused by overexertion in this scenario.
But, correct me if I'm wrong, cardiac arrest is like a result of hypoxia.
Very overweight guy, probably had high blood pressure/high cholesterol, maybe some blockage of the arteries or heart disease in a stressful physical altercation can easily cause cardiac arrest.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:24 am to bhtigerfan
Doesn't cardiac arrest just mean that the heart stop? I mean, can't the brain not getting oxygen cause the heart to stop?
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:27 am to baybeefeetz
quote:I presume you meant to say "if you shoot someone". Well guess what? In both cases it is what caused the cardiac arrest that killed the guy. Saying that he died from the cardiac arrest and not the chokehold is the same as saying "the bullets didn't kill him, it was the cardiac arrest".
That's not that smart. If your ship someone, you can reasonably foreseen the bill die regardless of how fat they are.
Chokeholds are forbidden by the NYPD because they are dangerous. The guy choked then was gasping that he couldn't breathe. Other cops were telling the guy to stop.
How many "hints" did the cop need to know that what he was doing was dangerous? Even if it didn't result in a death it was clearly excessive force.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:27 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
There is evidence of crush damage to the trachea - cops say EMS did that.
It may have been caused by the cop. It was a fluid situation. But the guy was breathing fine. The totality of the struggle caused his death. To be clear, I'm not ok with him dying, but I don't know if the cops had enough tools or are trained properly to avoid the eventual outcome. I don't know if a taser or pepper spray wouldn't have had similar outcomes. Once the guy began resisting the cops were going to have to use some force to arrest.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:28 am to C
The officers forearm is across his throat at several points in video.
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:28 am to baybeefeetz
I saw the video the day it came out, and I thought the LEO was in the wrong. Now after hearing most of the information, including the fact Garner was basically bullying people entering and exiting the store trying to sell them cigarettes, the LEO's were there to ARREST him and not issue a ticket, I see nothing criminal by the LEO's.
I have been tackled worse than Garner was. He shouldn't have resisted arrest.
ETA: On another note, the mayor of NYC is a complete dip shite race baiting bitch.
I have been tackled worse than Garner was. He shouldn't have resisted arrest.
ETA: On another note, the mayor of NYC is a complete dip shite race baiting bitch.
This post was edited on 12/6/14 at 11:16 am
Posted on 12/5/14 at 9:30 am to LSU0358
quote:
The officers forearm is across his throat at several points in video.
Screenshot it for me because I only see pressure on the side.
This post was edited on 12/5/14 at 9:31 am
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