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re: This board has become bipolar in it's world views
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:24 am to CherryGarciaMan
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:24 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:Really?
allowing ourselves to do whatever we want internationally in terms of policing
So we don't want to wipe out ISIS?
We don't want Russia's butt out of Ukraine?
We don't want to go into Libya and kick the Benghazi scumbags to kingdomcome?
Perhaps "doing whatever we want internationally" was a slight overstatement?
Now then, once again, instead of strawman characterizations, are you interested in citing and discussing specific examples?
0
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:32 am to CherryGarciaMan
You left one out:
This board loves stating people should be able to discriminate who they serve in their private businesses, and if they are bigots the free market will sort it out, not govt (gay cake baker comes to mind).
But when theres a situation like Chick-fil-A or Donald Sterling, where there is no govt action and its all protesting/calling for boycott/pulling of sponsors, many people on here got all pissy and argued this was an example of "thought policing." Cant pick and choose when to support the free market.
This board loves stating people should be able to discriminate who they serve in their private businesses, and if they are bigots the free market will sort it out, not govt (gay cake baker comes to mind).
But when theres a situation like Chick-fil-A or Donald Sterling, where there is no govt action and its all protesting/calling for boycott/pulling of sponsors, many people on here got all pissy and argued this was an example of "thought policing." Cant pick and choose when to support the free market.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:37 am to CherryGarciaMan
It's always been that way. The friction between Security and Liberty is centuries old and in a constant State of evolvement. And ideological inconsistency is part of the human condition, because it is impossible to anticipate every scenario. Thus people become quite er um twisted in their analysis.
I find that Absolutism on The Ideological Extremes is the greatest folly of all. The Truth is to be found somewhere in the middle, as a reaction to the actual human events that are occurring. The Ideal often becomes the exception to the rule.
For instance, almost all will agree that we should not pull the fingernails out of captured terrorists fingers. But yet, we can almost all also agree that given an imminent nuclear explosion, we would be willing to pull the fingernails out of the terrorists grandmother's fingers.
It would be contrary to human nature to have it any other way. The Absolutes of Idealistic Ideological Purity are always and will always be sacrificed when Existential questions are in play.
I find that Absolutism on The Ideological Extremes is the greatest folly of all. The Truth is to be found somewhere in the middle, as a reaction to the actual human events that are occurring. The Ideal often becomes the exception to the rule.
For instance, almost all will agree that we should not pull the fingernails out of captured terrorists fingers. But yet, we can almost all also agree that given an imminent nuclear explosion, we would be willing to pull the fingernails out of the terrorists grandmother's fingers.
It would be contrary to human nature to have it any other way. The Absolutes of Idealistic Ideological Purity are always and will always be sacrificed when Existential questions are in play.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:39 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
But when theres a situation like Chick-fil-A or Donald Sterling, where there is no govt action and its all protesting/calling for boycott/pulling of sponsors, many people on here got all pissy and argued this was an example of "thought policing." Cant pick and choose when to support the free market.
Not contradictory either.
I haven't seen anyone call for government involvement with CFA or Sterling from the right. We're disagreeing and supporting CFA or Sterling (if anyone supports Sterling) as market participants.
Your post reveals a lot about the distinctions between how folks on the left and right view things.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:40 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
But when theres a situation like Chick-fil-A or Donald Sterling, where there is no govt action and its all protesting/calling for boycott/pulling of sponsors, many people on here got all pissy and argued this was an example of "thought policing." Cant pick and choose when to support the free market.
Nope. Or give examples.
As to chik fil a it was people here saying use the free market to support them if you wish.
Sterling debate was about the rush to judgement and almost mob mentality and burning of torches that got many a debate going. He was racist. That wasn't debatable. It was a debate over the mass knee jerk reaction and the NBA itself.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:41 am to TK421
quote:
The average U.S. citizen doesn't give a frick about what the military is doing or what happens to people in other countries.
The average citizen does care about the tactics of the police here and the protection of our rights.
Well I for one think our government, intelligence services, and military have done a decent job in exercising restraint considering the breadth of our interests and our might relative to the rest of the world.
But in the abstract, I'll say that any population that doesn't "give a frick" what its government is doing abroad in its name and using its money, military, and the blood and souls of its sons isn't fit for freedom at home. They will very much deserve it when the government turns that power on them.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:45 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
But when theres a situation like Chick-fil-A or Donald Sterling, where there is no govt action
Except the reason many became inflamed over the Chick-fila-a incident is that the government did threaten action over the statements.
LINK
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:47 am to goatmilker
quote:
Sterling debate was about the rush to judgement and almost mob mentality and burning of torches that got many a debate going. He was racist. That wasn't debatable. It was a debate over the mass knee jerk reaction and the NBA itself.
Maybe that was your position, but many others on here where arguing it was "thought policing" to take away his team from him bc of something he said in his home. When myself and others tried to explain he would get his team taken bc of the financial impact his statements had (loss of sponsors for example), not bc he was racist (although of course the NBA used that as their cover) people just couldnt understand that. THAT is the free market.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:55 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
But when theres a situation like Chick-fil-A or Donald Sterling, where there is no govt action and its all protesting/calling for boycott/pulling of sponsors, many people on here got all pissy and argued this was an example of "thought policing." Cant pick and choose when to support the free market.
Protesting Chik-fil-A was the height of thought police. The man made a comment about his personal beliefs, and as far I can tell, that belief has not entered into his business at all. But, his business was protested because they did not like his beliefs.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:56 am to Cajun Tigah
That's how the market works.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:58 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:Should you be in class or something
You left one out:
This board loves stating people should be able to discriminate who they serve in their private businesses, and if they are bigots the free market will sort it out, not govt (gay cake baker comes to mind).
But when theres a situation like Chick-fil-A or Donald Sterling, where there is no govt action and its all protesting/calling for boycott/pulling of sponsors, many people on here got all pissy and argued this was an example of "thought policing." Cant pick and choose when to support the free market.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:01 am to Cajun Tigah
quote:
Protesting Chik-fil-A was the height of thought police. The man made a comment about his personal beliefs, and as far I can tell, that belief has not entered into his business at all. But, his business was protested because they did not like his beliefs.
Again, thats called the free market.
If theres a business owner who says he hates blacks personally, but would never treat his black employees or customers any differently, guess what? I'm still not going to eat there, and I'll probably tell my friends about him and they will probably not want to eat their either. And unless you don't like the free market, theres nothing wrong with that.
I know the chick fil a guy's comments were a little different, but theres nothing wrong with "punishing" someone for their personal beliefs you dont agree with: as long as you do it via your wallet, not your congressman.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:03 am to FalseProphet
quote:
Redundancy or not, it's a pretty solid point. People wonder why the world takes a slanted view of us, but they don't realize it's their own hypocrisy
I'm a fairly regular contributor against the excesses of police violence but there are times killing a bad guy is warranted.
You don't believe these two "deserved" what they received?
As far as the torture goes, I don't believe everyone is being bipolar here. I certainly don't support it.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:03 am to onmymedicalgrind
So are you against the CRA?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:04 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
NC_Tigah
Im on my outpatient clinic rotation, and I was given a 3 hr lunch break since our next pt doesnt come until 2. I'm in the middle of the country like 30 miles from home so too for to go back. I've been camping out in this Chinese buffet since 11 to buy time. I probably look so strange, by myself, typing feverishly on my phone
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:05 am to CherryGarciaMan
This board agrees with whatever Rush says for the most part. Which, yes, is very bipolar.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:05 am to onmymedicalgrind
I don't recall any libertarian on this board claiming that a boycott against Chik Filet should be illegal. It's not inconsistent for us to call it stupid.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:06 am to CherryGarciaMan
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."
- F. Scott Fitzgerald
I get your point though, this board is a bit on the absurd. They get more upset about cops killing a dog than they do about a retard. But yet are overwhelmingly pro-life.
Lots of cognitive dissonance.
- F. Scott Fitzgerald
I get your point though, this board is a bit on the absurd. They get more upset about cops killing a dog than they do about a retard. But yet are overwhelmingly pro-life.
Lots of cognitive dissonance.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:09 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
in this Chinese buffet
quote:A lone black guy at a Chinese Buffet . . . loitering . . . , nah, nothing strange about that.
I probably look so strange,
Just be sure to keep your hands in full view.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 11:15 am to CherryGarciaMan
Its no coincidence that these polarizations line up exactly with media narratives coming from each "side". The thread I just created was addressing the moral question of torture in general and IMMEDIATELY was met with "Well what about Obama's drones!!!??!?!! GOTCHA!"..............when in fact I abhor Obama's drone program and aside from that those points completely avoided the topic of the OP.
Its a sickening game of team sports. People have identified with their teams to the point where an attack on their team is a perceived attack on their very existence evoking a visceral and emotional response.
Its a sickening game of team sports. People have identified with their teams to the point where an attack on their team is a perceived attack on their very existence evoking a visceral and emotional response.
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