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Message
This board has become bipolar in it's world views
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:29 am
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:29 am
I guess it's just a symptom of the times, but, as far as general consensus goes:
We hate the police...unless they kill a "thug".
We hate our police state...unless they torture a "terrorist".
We love our freedoms...unless our gov't abuses freedoms of others.
It really bothers me that such self-perceived thinkers can hold such opposing views at the same time.
"Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither"-Benny Franklin
We hate the police...unless they kill a "thug".
We hate our police state...unless they torture a "terrorist".
We love our freedoms...unless our gov't abuses freedoms of others.
It really bothers me that such self-perceived thinkers can hold such opposing views at the same time.
"Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither"-Benny Franklin
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:31 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:Nothing bi-polar about that. We can hate police practices that are becoming common without suddenly thinking that there are zero circumstances where a cop might end up shooting someone.
We hate the police...unless they kill a "thug".
quote:Yep. That one is kinda bi-polar
We hate our police state...unless they torture a "terrorist".
quote:Hmm. Is this a redundancy of your second point?
We love our freedoms...unless our gov't abuses freedoms of others.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:33 am to ShortyRob
Redundancy or not, it's a pretty solid point. People wonder why the world takes a slanted view of us, but they don't realize it's their own hypocrisy.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:34 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
It really bothers me that such self-perceived thinkers can hold such opposing views at the same time
It's called critical thinking and when applied to different situations might result in conclusions that seem contradictory.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:35 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:"sacrifice"
"Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither"-Benny Franklin
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:38 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:You left out two key words, CherryGarciaMan.
I guess it's just a symptom of the times, but, as far as general consensus goes:
We hate the police...unless they kill a "thug".
We hate our police state...unless they torture a "terrorist".
We love our freedoms...unless our gov't abuses freedoms of others.
One is "fact", and the other is "truth".
Want to address specific facts or truths, or their perceived antitheses?
Lay them out.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:38 am to CherryGarciaMan
If we were not the worlds super power thing could indeed be much simpler.
I don't see concerns about our domestic police force and our world politics as being connected as you do.
I believe most Americans are wary of our use of torture as the debates on it since 9-11 show.
I don't get this.
Happens all the time on complicated emotional issues. Just not clear cut. I know its not for me.
I don't see concerns about our domestic police force and our world politics as being connected as you do.
I believe most Americans are wary of our use of torture as the debates on it since 9-11 show.
quote:
We love our freedoms...unless our gov't abuses freedoms of others.
I don't get this.
quote:
It really bothers me that such self-perceived thinkers can hold such opposing views at the same time.
Happens all the time on complicated emotional issues. Just not clear cut. I know its not for me.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:40 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
We hate our police state...unless they torture a "terrorist".
The torturing of terrorists has nothing to do with our police state.
quote:
We love our freedoms...unless our gov't abuses freedoms of others.
This might be a bit hypocritical, but it is not contradictory. All people value their own rights above the rights of others to a certain extent.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:53 am to TK421
quote:
The torturing of terrorists has nothing to do with our police state.
Are you kidding? That mentality (the one that would allow justifiable overreach by those who gurad/protect us) is pervasive.
The military who polices the world leads to our policing of ourselves.
We torture others=OK
We spy on ourselves=Not okay (unless we save one single life?)
Our police are bad....unless they kill "thugs"
I just don't get it.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:55 am to FalseProphet
quote:
Redundancy or not, it's a pretty solid point. People wonder why the world takes a slanted view of us, but they don't realize it's their own hypocrisy.
While true to a point, the world hates us because we have more stuff than they do & we don't need "papers" to travel around
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:56 am to Wtodd
quote:
While true to a point, the world hates us because we have more stuff than they do & we don't need "papers" to travel around
Apparently you've never been through an inspection checkpoint.
quote:
the world hates us because we have more stuff than they do
:lol: :lol:
Posted on 12/11/14 at 9:57 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
Are you kidding? That mentality (the one that would allow justifiable overreach by those who gurad/protect us) is pervasive.
The military who polices the world leads to our policing of ourselves.
We torture others=OK
We spy on ourselves=Not okay (unless we save one single life?)
Our police are bad....unless they kill "thugs"
I just don't get it.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:04 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
The military who polices the world leads to our policing of ourselves.
Stretch Armstrong would be proud of this logic.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:06 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:Certainly true to a point.
the world hates us because we have more stuff than they do
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:06 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
I guess it's just a symptom of the times, but, as far as general consensus goes:
We hate the police...unless they kill a "thug".
We hate our police state...unless they torture a "terrorist".
We love our freedoms...unless our gov't abuses freedoms of others.
It really bothers me that such self-perceived thinkers can hold such opposing views at the same time.
"Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither"-Benny Franklin
Indelicately put, but what you're trying to address is hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance. Both key features of the human condition if you ask me.
But the real trouble with this board is that, like many places on the internet, it's really just a venue for trolling, attention seeking, worldview validation, and circle jerking. There is very little honest discussion. Lots of snark (guilty), lots of reruns, lots of outrage, etc.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:07 am to TK421
quote:
TK421
You don't think that our mentality of allowing ourselves to do whatever we want internationally in terms of policing is directly linked to us being okay with police overreach?
There is no correlation there?
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:07 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
I just don't get it.
The lust for power pursues the path to victory.
This quaint notion of "ideology" is just a tool.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:08 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
We hate the police...unless they kill a "thug".
We hate our police state...unless they torture a "terrorist".
These aren't contradictory.
A domestic police state has nothing to do with interrogation of terrorists.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:14 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
You don't think that our mentality of allowing ourselves to do whatever we want internationally in terms of policing is directly linked to us being okay with police overreach?
Of course they aren't related. The average U.S. citizen doesn't give a frick about what the military is doing or what happens to people in other countries.
The average citizen does care about the tactics of the police here and the protection of our rights.
I get that you are trying to make some broad pseudo-intellectual point, but the truth is every civilization in the history of the world has maintained an "us vs them" mentality and the U.S. is no different.
Posted on 12/11/14 at 10:18 am to TK421
quote:
I get that you are trying to make some broad pseudo-intellectual point, but the truth is every civilization in the history of the world has maintained an "us vs them" mentality and the U.S. is no different.
Which can be dangerous, but is also justifiable. I think our way of life is objectively superior to that available in other countries, especially in near east nations. I'm sure folks on the far left would label that ethnocentrism and jingoism, but that just shows how far we've shifted as a society.
Relativism is pretty worthless when nobody else shares it.
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