re: SCOTUS Lifts stay on Ledell Lee execution

Good. Save the taxpayers some money. Also we've got to start getting these appeal processes moving faster so the victims families can get closure sooner.

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Lots of hypocrisy from both sides that neither are willing to address.

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Not really.

Babies are innocent and deserve to live despite the mother wanting convenience.

If you kill someone in cold blood and in a premeditated manner, you deserve to die as the ultimate punishment.

Personally, I never ever want Roe v Wade to be overturned but its sound logic and the conservatives have it.

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If the government doesn't, who does? Where does that authority come from?

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My personal opinion?

I don't think anyone, in any position here on earth has the right to take another person's life. And although it's a really unpopular opinion, I don't believe anyone's life is fully irredeemable in some way. Nobody is "worthless." That belief is tough to maintain in some cases, and even harder to defend. But I truly believe that.

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My personal opinion?

I don't think anyone, in any position here on earth has the right to take another person's life. And although it's a really unpopular opinion, I don't believe anyone's life is fully irredeemable in some way. Nobody is "worthless." That belief is tough to maintain in some cases, and even harder to defend. But I truly believe that.

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Correct, I wanted your personal opinion. Thank you (honestly) for sharing it.

I'm honestly torn on the death penalty. Always have been. In fact I was removed from a capital murder case jury pool for just that reason. A case that was very, VERY clear cut.

However on a personal level...if you attempt to harm myself or my family, I will remove your ability to do so if I am able. If that means you die, so be it. And I can say that with a completely clear conscience. Your right to life ends the moment you attempt to take my or my family's.

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I don't understand how you think the death penalty is incompatible with the scriptures. Jesus was unjustly put to death yet He didn't rail against the death penalty. Also, Jesus is God and was around before His human incarnation. He was there in the Old Testament when God the Father was telling the Israelites to put people to death for certain offenses. Paul, in his letter to the Romans in chapter 13, says that the government is there for the good of the people, wielding the sword to punish wrongdoers.

Jesus taught that individuals should not seek vengeance, but the civil magistrate (government) is given authority by God to exact justice, which sometimes includes the death penalty. There's a distinction between roles in the Bible, and Joe Civilian doesn't have the same authority as the government and he isn't allowed to do some things the government is sanctioned to do.

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This is a very complex subject. I will do my best to respond as best as I can.

I'm glad you brought up Jesus' execution. I think that's a perfect example. He was, by all accounts, wrongfully executed by the government. When he was being killed, he prayed for his persecutors - as it was happening. "They know not what they do." It was a flawed system. It's not any better today.

Jesus himself stepped in front of a death sentence and challenged anyone who was without sin to commence the killing.

Jesus challenged the "eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" teachings that was defined in the old law. Remember, that wasn't a license for revenge - but rather a limitation of what could be done in retaliation.

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Paul, in his letter to the Romans in chapter 13, says that the government is there for the good of the people, wielding the sword to punish wrongdoers.

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This has been something that I've struggled to grapple with while attempting for form my complete thoughts on the matter. To me, acknowledging the government has the authority is completely different than supporting the action itself.

If we take Jesus at his word, then there is a better way. We love our enemies. We turn the other cheek and pray for those who persecute us. We love our neighbor as ourself - including the person who would traditionally be considered our enemy. These were all radical teachings from Jesus. Jesus was grace personified. It's difficult for me to reconcile anything about he death penalty with anything about Jesus or his teachings.

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However on a personal level...if you attempt to harm myself or my family, I will remove your ability to do so if I am able. If that means you die, so be it. And I can say that with a completely clear conscience. Your right to life ends the moment you attempt to take my or my family's.

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I do not fault you for that. I've had that very conversation with several of my close friends. Truth be told, I'm pretty sure I'd respond in the same manner if my family's lives were being seriously threatened. That feels a bit hypocritical and is something I don't feel good about. I'd like to think I would do everything in my power to avoid killing someone else. But I don't know that for certain. I hope I am never faced with that.

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That feels a bit hypocritical and is something I don't feel good about.

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It's also kind of an esoteric point of discussion among libertarians. The idea being the state never, ever has the right to take a life. Only an individual has the right to take a life, and then only if his is threatened.

Of course that just devolves in to discussion of protecting family, the state stepping in to defend someone who can't defend themselves, role of the military, etc.

I'm a fairly rigorous libertarian, but this is one subject that's just a shite show to discuss for a multitude of reasons...and a subject I think libertarianism will never have a good answer for.

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I don't think anyone, in any position here on earth has the right to take another person's life.

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So you are vehemently antiabortion?

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That is beyond ridiculous.

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It may seem ridiculous on the surface, but it's really not.

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Kathleen Garcia, a victims' advocate and expert on traumatic grief, recently shared her opinions on the death penalty in New Hampshire, a state that is studying the issue through its Commission on Capital Punishment. Garcia, a member of New Jersey's Death Penalty Study Commission, wrote, "Make no mistake – I am a conservative, a victims’ advocate and a death penalty supporter. But my real life experience has taught me that as long as the death penalty is on the books in any form, it will continue to harm survivors. For that reason alone, it must be ended." Garcia suffered through the murder of a family member in 1984, but has found the death penalty to be much more harmul than helpful: "It is my opinion, as well as the view of other long-standing victim advocates throughout New Jersey, that our capital punishment system harmed the survivors of murder victims. It may have been put in place to serve us, but in fact it was a colossal failure for the many families I serve."

"[Victims' families] endured multiple trials, as well as the additional trauma each one created in their fractured lives, leaving them feeling revictimized by the very system they once trusted to give them some sense of justice. Meanwhile, families with differing opinions on the death penalty are divided at the moment they need each other most."

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It simply doesn't hold up against New Testament theology, if we're going to take the Biblical route in discussing it.

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If you believe this, then you're utterly clueless about New Testament theology. Go read Romans 13 and then come back and try to say that with a straight face. Romans 13 clearly sanctions capital punishment. Or what did you think God's servant bearing that sword was going to do with it???

Like I said...you're clueless. It's plain as day and not even subject to debate.

" Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer."