re: Pope Francis to issue edict on Climate Change, Greed, Social Inequality.

I think it is obvious that by itself capitalism will lead to higher values, but there still needs to be some type of judicial system or ethical system to guide it

Because someone brought it up. should a company face financial penalties for putting human lives at risk because they were trying to save some money. IF you say yes than you agree that some ethical principles must be in play, if not than you are suggesting something new and not really happening in society.

Businesses being governed by ethics is nothing new. Letting capitalism run without anything to check it is something not happening in society. We live in a culture that demands ethical practices in business and economics. Our country for the most part has laws in place to guard against these things.

Whether it happens in capitalism itself or outside of it, some type of ethical guidelines must protect the people who are inside of the economic system. That is what the Pope is arguing for and will continue to do so.

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should a company face financial penalties for putting human lives at risk because they were trying to save some money.

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every company "puts lives at risk" because they're "trying to save some money"

it sounds great to ask such emotionally-based questions that are based in some perceived elevated moral stance, but it's a bad question that is simply not based in reality. it completely ignores looking at the entire picture and deciding what the line is specifically

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Our country for the most part has laws in place to guard against these things.

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and some are terrible and immoral

i can flip your entire argument against your argument, but with much more specific examples

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some type of ethical guidelines must protect the people who are inside of the economic system.

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and this type of idealistic anti-thinking is what kept india in poverty. the pope is free to believe this, but he must also admit that his system keeps more people poor, with inferior health, shorter lifespans, and no ability to leave their station (or have their kids improve their station)

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every company "puts lives at risk" because they're "trying to save some money"

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you keep dodging the question to prop up your position, and avoid saying I think that capitalism should not be controlled.

Capitalism is by far the most effective system in the world and it works, but it is legit to call for some type of judicial system to watch over the economic system.

I'm sure I can think of hundreds of examples of companies unnecessarily putting lives on the line. Based on what you have said so far you seem to be ok with companies doing things that directly lead to someones death and not be punished in some way for it.

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it sounds great to ask such emotionally-based questions that are based in some perceived elevated moral stance, but it's a bad question that is simply not based in reality. it completely ignores looking at the entire picture and deciding what the line is specifically

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ok maybe this is a bad argumentation, but your refutal of these arguments does nothing to disprove my position, it just proves you can answer the question in a way that doesn't destroy your side.

Plus if you actually read the Churches documents on these things, you will see that the Church gives a universal norm to follow and it is up to local groups and governments to make these decisions. The church will never call for specific type of system rather it will give norms and ask others to follow.

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and some are terrible and immoral

i can flip your entire argument against your argument, but with much more specific examples

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just because there are some laws that are bad doesn't mean my argument fails, it just shows that no solution is perfect and we make mistakes.

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and this type of idealistic anti-thinking

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I love how you just used an ad hominin argument instead of actually explaining how it happens.

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and avoid saying I think that capitalism should not be controlled.

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All part of the libertarian fantasy. When you ask for nuts and bolts you get rhetoric and the same "answers" repackaged or reworded.

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but it is legit to call for some type of judicial system to watch over the economic system.

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i never said otherwise. that's not based in "ethics", though

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I'm sure I can think of hundreds of examples of companies unnecessarily putting lives on the line.

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and the issue is how you define how it is "unecessary", when it's an issue of cost. safer cars cost more money. poor people couldn't afford cars if they were 100% safe. hell the middle class couldn't, either. corners have to be cut to make the product available for consumers. those corners "put lives on the line". it's a tradeoff we make in society.

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I love how you just used an ad hominin argument instead of actually explaining how it happens.

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i have already explained how it happens. hell even my "Sweatshop" example was based around India

and it's anti-thinking because we tried it "morally" and India was a terrible place for hundreds of millions of its citizens. we are trying a system based much more in freedom (and therefore unethical, at least in the end) and the script has flipped. it's not an ad hom attack. we already know the results of the different philosophies. defending going backwards to a system that has been proven to be terrible for poor people is a devolution of thought

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All part of the libertarian fantasy. When you ask for nuts and bolts you get rhetoric and the same "answers" repackaged or reworded.

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i don't even know what you're talking about with this response at that point of of the conversation

I want to bring this back into the discussion because I truly believe this is the Church's and therefore the Pope's view of capitalism, at-least he says something that is directly contrary to this.

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The answer is obviously complex. If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative, even though it would perhaps be more appropriate to speak of a “business economy”, “market economy” or simply “free economy”. But if by “capitalism” is meant a system in which freedom in the economic sector is not circumscribed within a strong juridical framework which places it at the service of human freedom in its totality, and which sees it as a particular aspect of that freedom, the core of which is ethical and religious, then the reply is certainly negative.

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I'm arguing for the above.

It appears SFP is arguing for the later which JPII argues against.

I'll put it as simply as I can

Should capitalism be circumscribed within a strong juridical framework or not?

My answer is yes

it appears SFP answer is no.

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Should capitalism be circumscribed within a strong juridical framework or not?

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Yes.

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to me human life > growth of GDP. Yes I understand growth in GDP leads to better human life, but I think the thought process of it's ok to sacrifice a few people for the sake of the many is flawed and wrong. Even if you have to do this to improve society it shouldn't be done.

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Not many people agree with this.

Here's another short article on upcoming encyclical.

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Pope Francis has reportedly spent months drafting his new encyclical on Creation, and respect for the environment.

In March, during an audience with superiors from the Franciscan order, the Pope expressed how much this topic concerns him, and asked them for advice.

FR. MICHAEL ANTHONY PERRY
Minister General, Order of Friars Minor
"The Pope himself brought up the issue of the environment. And he talked about his deep concern that we need, the Church needs, to find the way to respond, using the best of science. But also using the best of goodwill of all of humanity, to bring together a consensus on trying to respond to the crisis, the ecological crisis.”

To help him reflect on this issue, the Franciscan leaders gave him a copy of their "Franciscans for Ecology” text. In it, they cite several initiatives within this field that the Order has promoted, alongside people of other faiths.

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LINK