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Started By
Message
re: Jimmy Kimmel: GOP Senator ‘Lied Right To My Face’ About Healthcare Reform
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:50 am to ctalati32
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:50 am to ctalati32
You can pony up your own money at any time that you seem this issue is important enough. There are millions of virtue signalers just like you. Get busy and do something.
1
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:51 am to 225bred
quote:quote:
if you don't think healthcare is a right and tough shite to someone who can't afford it
if that's your opinion,that's your opinion, I just happen to disagree with you
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:53 am to tigerinDC09
quote:
insurance companies to charge thru the roof for pre-existing conditions
Someone doesn't know what insurance is
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:53 am to roadGator
quote:
You can pony up your own money at any time that you seem this issue is important enough. There are millions of virtue signalers just like you. Get busy and do something.
I already do.
I could make way more money doing things other than medicine for the hours I work. I could also work private practice and make way more money than i do for less work. I am at a university hospital doing this work to help out. I donate money to my hospital and volunteer for health fares.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:53 am to ctalati32
quote:
You can't have a governmental guarantee of a service and then have a private company run it, the private company will price gouge. This happens with pharmaceuticals and medical device companies.
You are crushing your own argument. Pharmaceuticals and medical device companies are run on the model, "What is the most the insurer will pay?" - not what is the price for this in a competitive market.
Most folks never pay the bill. They pay their premiums, monthly, their co-pays and their deductible. The "customer" is only worried about out of pocket. If the model was more reimbursement-based - I'm paying $X and I will be reimbursed $Y - customers will be more selective and restrained - as will their doctors. And then costs will be regulated by the classic market of supply and demand, not a government-based, push model, or "This is how much we will pay."
Same forces have skyrocketed education costs, too.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:54 am to ctalati32
quote:
Do you guys think having a Fire department is a good thing.
It's essentially the same argument. My house has never caught fire or burned down, but my taxes go to fund a fire department to help out others who sometimes through their own fault and sometimes through bad luck have their houses burned down. I hopefully may never need their services, but in case I do, i'm glad they exist because I couldn't personally absorb the cost of having the equipment and training of someone to put out my house if it happened
How is that different from paying for healthcare?
You need to go open up an economics book and read the definition of a "public good" and a "private good". Fire department is a "public good" and healthcare/healthcare insurance is a "private good". Homeowners insurance is a private good.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:57 am to ctalati32
quote:
I already do.
I could make way more money doing things other than medicine for the hours I work. I could also work private practice and make way more money than i do for less work. I am at a university hospital doing this work to help out. I donate money to my hospital and volunteer for health fares.
If this is true, then kudos to you.
I may be diametrically opposed to your stance on healthcare, but at least you are practicing what you preach. need more people like that, on both sides.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:01 am to ctalati32
Give until it hurts. Have others that believe as you do give and sacrifice until it hurts.
You guys can do this without growing the government.
Have your doctor buddies get rid of private school payments, beach houses, fancy cars, lavish ski trips. The money is out there. You guys just have to be serious about actually solving the problem without making government bigger.
You guys can do this without growing the government.
Have your doctor buddies get rid of private school payments, beach houses, fancy cars, lavish ski trips. The money is out there. You guys just have to be serious about actually solving the problem without making government bigger.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:01 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
You are crushing your own argument. Pharmaceuticals and medical device companies are run on the model, "What is the most the insurer will pay?" - not what is the price for this in a competitive market.
Most folks never pay the bill. They pay their premiums, monthly, their co-pays and their deductible. The "customer" is only worried about out of pocket. If the model was more reimbursement-based - I'm paying $X and I will be reimbursed $Y - customers will be more selective and restrained - as will their doctors. And then costs will be regulated by the classic market of supply and demand, not a government-based, push model, or "This is how much we will pay."
Same forces have skyrocketed education costs, too.
I agree that the system is abused because some people don't see the costs.
I don't disagree with a reimbursement model, provided there is a caveat for those who can't pay due to poverty and they pay on a sliding scale.
But don't get me wrong, I'm not all about giving handouts to everyone. Like if you're that poor I don't think you should have the latest clothes or iphone or whatever. It should be for the destitute and this helps only where they cannot do themselves. And I'm for food stamps, but I don't think you should be able to get lobster or alcohol or any other luxury food with it. These things ideally are help the truly destitute.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:11 am to roadGator
quote:
Give until it hurts. Have others that believe as you do give and sacrifice until it hurts.
You guys can do this without growing the government.
Have your doctor buddies get rid of private school payments, beach houses, fancy cars, lavish ski trips. The money is out there. You guys just have to be serious about actually solving the problem without making government bigger.
Why don't you support this with all facets of government?
I think the wall is a stupid idea. I think unchecked illegal immigration is a problem and we need to address it, but this is asinine. I don't think it'll do anything to actually stop immigration. We don't have the manpower to actually watch it and tunnels and ladders will abound making it a total waste of money. So why should I pay for it
Why don't you just throw your money at it "until it hurts" to fund it if you're so inclined
***before you say Mexico will pay for it, realize money is fungible. if we can tax remittances to Mexico or make it via trade deals that is income. If we spend that on a wall we are spending our money on that and not on other more useful things, like infrastructure or healthcare.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:16 am to frogtown
quote:
You need to go open up an economics book and read the definition of a "public good" and a "private good". Fire department is a "public good" and healthcare/healthcare insurance is a "private good". Homeowners insurance is a private good.
Given that all our healthcare bills are affected by those who don't have insurance using health care , you are entirely wrong.
Your healthcare choices affect me. And visa versa.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:21 am to ctalati32
I don't support bigger governmemt. That's why. You and people like you have the ability to solve this problem. You just don't have the fortitude or determination.
You are barking up the wrong tree. I don't and haven't supported a physical barrier the entire length of our border with the invading country that is Mexico.
Try solving the problem privately first. That's all I'm asking.
Of course, I don't expect those that want more gov involvement to ever do that. They'd have to make such sacrifices that they'd quickly drop it. Giving until it hurts isn't big with the virtue signaling crowd.
You are barking up the wrong tree. I don't and haven't supported a physical barrier the entire length of our border with the invading country that is Mexico.
Try solving the problem privately first. That's all I'm asking.
Of course, I don't expect those that want more gov involvement to ever do that. They'd have to make such sacrifices that they'd quickly drop it. Giving until it hurts isn't big with the virtue signaling crowd.
This post was edited on 9/20/17 at 11:24 am
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:22 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
My health care choices can have zero affects on you. They could have a minor affect. That is unlikely though.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:26 am to roadGator
quote:
You are barking up the wrong tree. I don't and haven't supported a physical barrier the entire length of our border with the invading country that is Mexico.
Try solving the problem privately first. That's all I'm asking.
Of course, I don't expect those that want more gov involvement to ever do that. They'd have to make such sacrifices that they'd quickly drop it. Giving until it hurts isn't big with the virtue signaling crowd.
I made a poor assumption and I apologize for lumping you into that group.
From what I've seen, I don't think there's a private solution. There are some communities which could probably help support some via charity, but other communities can't afford it.
But we as humans are selfish, how many people find anything that they're willing to give until it hurts. I don't really see anybody doing that on either side of the aisle. I always found that as a straw man argument. Is there anyone out there who has given up every thing they own and every bit of money they have (outside of minimal self sustenance) for a cause they support? Should we then not support anything?
This post was edited on 9/20/17 at 11:29 am
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:34 am to ctalati32
You should support what is important to you. How much you give or sacrifice is directly related your actual caring.
There is indeed a private solution.
You and yours just don't care enough to even try. So you just virtue signal and ask for more government.
Can you not see that?
You care about this a lot apparently but not really if you are honest.
I don't really care about abortions because I don't actually do anything about them.
I'm tired of all the virtue signaling. It's got to be erased as a tool by the left. Feelings and emotions are meaningless.
The bottom line is that you want more government and I don't. It's easier for you to look to DC to solve this problem. Throw more money at every problem. Works every time, right?
There is indeed a private solution.
You and yours just don't care enough to even try. So you just virtue signal and ask for more government.
Can you not see that?
You care about this a lot apparently but not really if you are honest.
I don't really care about abortions because I don't actually do anything about them.
I'm tired of all the virtue signaling. It's got to be erased as a tool by the left. Feelings and emotions are meaningless.
The bottom line is that you want more government and I don't. It's easier for you to look to DC to solve this problem. Throw more money at every problem. Works every time, right?
This post was edited on 9/20/17 at 11:37 am
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:42 am to roadGator
Well can I then turn your argument back towards you?
You support small government.
Do you donate all of your time and money to candidates who are going to do that? Have you quit your job to support them or run for public office yourself to push small government ideals?
If you haven't does that mean your resolve isn't strong enough?
You support small government.
Do you donate all of your time and money to candidates who are going to do that? Have you quit your job to support them or run for public office yourself to push small government ideals?
If you haven't does that mean your resolve isn't strong enough?
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:44 am to ctalati32
You'd be better off picking an issue and not a profession or political process.
I'll give you one. I care about battered women's centers.
Ask away.
Is my argument wrong? Is caring about something related to the sacrifices made to change it?
I'll give you one. I care about battered women's centers.
Ask away.
Is my argument wrong? Is caring about something related to the sacrifices made to change it?
This post was edited on 9/20/17 at 11:47 am
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:45 am to tigerinDC09
quote:
Kimmel noted that the Louisiana lawmaker lied
Cassidy doesn't seem like a liar to me. Goofy, yes, deceitful no.
FAR more likely is that Kimmel (who I generally like) doesn't understand what the frick he is talking about.
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:49 am to tigerinDC09
Oh so insurance will actually be insurance and welfare can be welfare
Posted on 9/20/17 at 12:02 pm to roadGator
quote:quote:
You'd be better off picking an issue and not a profession or political process.
I'll give you one. I care about battered women's centers.
Ask away.
Is my argument wrong? Is caring about something related to the sacrifices made to change it?
So then do you "give until it hurts" for battered women's centers. Do you have a decent house or car, etc. Could you give more to that cause?
I don't think the core of your argument is wrong. We should be willing to make sacrifices to what we believe in. And those who are pushing this cause who don't make some sacrifice to helping it are hypocrites. I only take issue with the "give until it hurts" sentiment. I feel that is a straw man argument which can be made about anything.
But again, I don't think this should be a handout. I think if you do receive food stamps or free healthcare you should have to give back to the system somehow; maybe not monetarily but otherwise like community service.
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