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Message
re: Ending "Trump is no conservative"
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:25 am to Texas Weazel
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:25 am to Texas Weazel
quote:
No. Because his actions say so.
You can do better... come on.... actions please. What actions?
1
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:26 am to Jjdoc
quote:You could at least link the Wikipedia page that you copy and pasted the definitions from. You post article and quotes frequently, so by copying and pasting them without linking, referencing, or simply quoting, it seems like you're trying to pass them off as your own.
There is Liberal Conservatism that exalts three tenets of Burkean conservatism, namely the diffidence toward the power of the state, the preference of liberty over equality and patriotism, while rejecting the three remaining tenets, namely loyalty to traditional institutions and hierarchies, scepticism regarding progress and elitism.
And how can we have a honest discussion about complex ideological characteristics if the originator of the discussion is lazily and deceptively plagiarizing the concepts that form the whole basis of the discussion?
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:28 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Why? Because you say so?
Because anyone who has had any remote education on the topic says so. I can't think of a single educated person who has accused him of this. They all say that he clearly isn't a classic conservative.
The only people saying he's a conservative are morons who don't know what conservatism means. You fall under this.
This is like a person debating evolution, and a creationist says "why, because you said so". It is infuriating to talk to someone like you who takes actual pride in being ignorant.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:31 am to Sentrius
quote:
Trump is a jacksonian populist, he's not a conservative but he does share a lot of common values and beliefs with conservatives and is willing to work with them and them only as liberals of the current democratic party has completely abandoned the working class of America and cannot be trusted right now.
Exactly. Trump should be compared to Jackson. He was emotionally volitale in the same way and blindly denounced anything he didn't like. Trump is absolutely Jacksonian and if it were still common practice, I'm sure he would have partaken in a number of duels like Jackson.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:33 am to OMLandshark
quote:
How is this an opinion when not only no one of authority and intelligence disagrees with me, but also the fact that I don't think Trump himself would disagree with me here?
Because what you have posted is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
You stated he is Pro Abortion, yet he ended funding for Planned Parenthood. That's an example of you giving an opinion....a view not based on facts.
quote:
Are you saying the definitions of the variants I gave are wrong or that Trump isn't pushing policies that fall within those?
Both
Good. You shouldn't trust it. Now... go look those up.
Social Conservatism...
Fiscal Conservatism
National Conservatism
and liberal conservatism
Then show me an actual ACTION that does not fall under those.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:33 am to DumbCollegeKid
quote:
He's a national treasure, so far.
Come on... I thought you were going to help.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:35 am to Jjdoc
quote:Well if you just linked the definitions rather than plagiarizing them, you wouldn't have to go tell people to find it.
Now... go look those up.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:36 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Fiscals want absolute free trade and immigration wide open.
Nationals want fair trade based on a free market and limited immigration. Fair trade results in free trade when it is FAIR. When it is not, they defend our National interests
So much wrong here it's not really worth fully vetting through.
I'll just ask this: why do fiscals want ABSOLUTE free trade and immigration WIDE OPEN but nationals apparently don't want ZERO immigration and NO trade?
Or are you just being a strawman producing hack?
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:37 am to Jjdoc
I love the guy. He's done exactly what I've wanted him to do. How am I not helping?
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:38 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
And how can we have a honest discussion about complex ideological characteristics if the originator of the discussion is lazily and deceptively plagiarizing the concepts that form the whole basis of the discussion?
As usual, Buck eye can't refute so he attacks the messenger. I have stated over and over that these are the definitions. Anybody can fact check that.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:38 am to Jjdoc
Well, for one he has been pushing "fair" trade instead of free trade.
Free trade is a fundamental conservative value. It means no tarrifs and taxes on trade and the ability to conduct business in multiple countries with little to no government regulations or interference.
Trump doesn't plan on doing that.
Free trade is a fundamental conservative value. It means no tarrifs and taxes on trade and the ability to conduct business in multiple countries with little to no government regulations or interference.
Trump doesn't plan on doing that.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:39 am to Jjdoc
quote:
Because what you have posted is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
I've watched what he's said and how he's acted. I don't think Trump himself would say he was a classical conservative. I think the most I would get out of him is "I'm somewhat conservative". He hasn't been yelling off the rooftops about conservative principles. That's what Cruz did. He just yelled whatever came to his head.
quote:
You stated he is Pro Abortion, yet he ended funding for Planned Parenthood. That's an example of you giving an opinion....a view not based on facts.
All of his friends in New York have said that he has talked about abortion pretty extensively and been for it. I don't buy for a second that he internally changed his position when he announced his candidacy. He sees abortion like I do and I don't see why he'd change it.
quote:
Good. You shouldn't trust it. Now... go look those up.
I'm not looking up any conservative definition you give me until you at least somewhat understand what being a conservative is. Trump isn't, nor has anyone with any platform accused him of being such.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:39 am to DumbCollegeKid
quote:Because paid shills have talking points that they have to get out, so if you're not in line with them, you're making their jobs harder.
I love the guy. He's done exactly what I've wanted him to do. How am I not helping?
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:39 am to Texas Weazel
Only matters if you think all conservatives are in lockstep. They aren't.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:42 am to Jjdoc
quote:Of course I'm attacking the messenger, when the messenger is blatantly and unnecessarily plagiarizing.
As usual, Buck eye can't refute so he attacks the messenger.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:42 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Because anyone who has had any remote education on the topic says so. I can't think of a single educated person who has accused him of this. They all say that he clearly isn't a classic conservative.
If it's so apparent, why can't you list his actions since in office that show is he is not under the umbrella of conservative?
quote:
The only people saying he's a conservative are morons who don't know what conservatism means. You fall under this.
Yet I am the one who gave the verifiable definitions, and pointed out the issues you stated were totally wrong.
quote:
This is like a person debating evolution, and a creationist says "why, because you said so".
YES IT IS!!! LOL.. You say he's pro abortion, I point and link you to his actions... an EO defunding PP.
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:42 am to DumbCollegeKid
quote:
Only matters if you think all conservatives are in lockstep. They aren't.
Not when it's one of the fundamental values of conservatism. It's like saying you're a chef, but can't cook.
This post was edited on 2/25/17 at 12:43 am
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:43 am to Texas Weazel
No True Scotsman?
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:43 am to Texas Weazel
Why are y'all making me defend a premise I don't agree with?
Posted on 2/25/17 at 12:46 am to BigJim
quote:
I'll just ask this: why do fiscals want ABSOLUTE free trade
Because of their actions. It's what they have done. Because it's part of the very definition.
quote:
immigration WIDE OPEN
Ask Rubio and all the Fiscals that have supported it.
quote:
apparently don't want ZERO immigration and NO trade?
That's not what's happening. It's limited immigration and fair trade. Nice of you to try and change that.
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