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re: Drug companies protected by FDA and patent law raise prices in unison again

Posted on 2/27/17 at 2:38 pm to
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57234 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 2:38 pm to
quote:

Or we could set up an independent drug price arbitration doodad that ensures we're not screwed (current state) and they're not screwed (your potential future state).
There is nothing more entertaining the lefties claiming that a giving government more power over pricing will cure anti-competitive corruption perpetuated by government. Bonus points for claiming that monopolies lead to lower pricing.
Posted by BamaAtl
South of North
Member since Dec 2009
21895 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

anti-competitive corruption perpetuated by government.


What about anti-competitive corruption perpetuated by industry?

Or are you one of those "drug monopolies only exist because of patent laws and thus it's always the government's fault" fools?
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69299 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 2:41 pm to
Government negotiating prices under a single payor is nothing more than a price control
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69299 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 2:42 pm to
How can a firm perpetuate monopoly without the backing of legal force?
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:28 pm to
I doubt the bureaucracy would attempt to count such a thing. It might change the mind of the naive who thinks big drug government is best of the healthcare of the people.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

Over the last few years, exposés and articles on the FDA’s cozy relationship with drug companies have appeared in a WGBH Frontline telecast, the Boston Globe, the Washington Post, and the New York Times. Beginning with the Prescription Drug User Fee Act of 1992, Congress required drug companies to pay up to half a million dollars to the FDA with each new drug application. The money was used to hire more reviewers to get drugs on the market more quickly. By 2003 over half the FDA’s drug reviewers were paid with industry money and approval time for drugs had gone from over two years to less than six months. In fiscal 2006 industry money paid to the FDA was estimated to hit $382 million.

Meanwhile, the culture at the FDA had become industry friendly, which included a reluctance to challenge company claims about drug safety and effectiveness. The number of drug approvals became part of FDA employees’ performance evaluations. FDA reviewers were pressured to approve drugs or soften the language in their reviews or on drug labels. It became common for researchers with ties to the drug industry to serve on FDA advisory panels. In 2005, in the wake of a series of drug-safety scandals and criticism from Congress, the FDA changed course again, issuing a flood of drug-safety warnings and slowing approval times for new drugs, prompting charges that the FDA was over-reacting.

It’s not hard to find cases of FDA abuse. A May 1995 article in Reason discussed the case of Edwin Cohen, president of Barr Laboratories, who in 1989 testified before a congressional subcommittee about unfair treatment he had received from the FDA. Within hours FDA inspectors invaded Barr’s facilities in retaliation. Barr sued the agency repeatedly for relief from harassment, while it worked tirelessly to close him down. The company was hit with a blizzard of minor inspection violations and delays in drug approval. Its share price fell to one-sixth its former value. Production on several product lines was stopped, and one-quarter of the company’s employees were laid off. In 1993 Cohen was replaced by someone more agreeable to the FDA.

Articles in Life Extension (May 2001 and April 2002) describe the case of Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw, who have been battling the FDA since 1994 for permission to sell folic acid with a label which includes the claim that the supplement is more effective than food sources of the vitamin in reducing the risk of neural-tube defects. The claim is well established in the medical literature and supported by the Institutes of Medicine and the National Academy of Sciences. In 1999, after years of bureaucratic delay, Pearson and Shaw sued the FDA. In an 11–0 decision, a federal appellate court ruled that the FDA had unconstitutionally suppressed this health claim. The FDA ignored the ruling and refused to authorize the claim, eventually issuing a regulatory ruling that it was “inherently misleading.” Pearson and Shaw sued the FDA again to force it to comply with the court’s previous ruling. In 2001 the court ruled that the FDA’s health-claim standard was arbitrary and capricious. District Court Judge Gladys Kessler found the FDA’s failure to comply with the earlier decision inexcusable and indicated she thought the plaintiffs and the public had been harmed. One survey showed that only 30 percent of women of childbearing age knew that folic acid reduces birth defects. By suppressing this information, the FDA had condemned thousands of babies to crippling birth defects.

For years the FDA refused to allow manufacturers to advertise the cardiovascular benefits of aspirin, despite clinical studies that supported the claim, resulting in the premature deaths of many thousands of people. Regular aspirin use slightly increases the risk of stroke for some, and the FDA was worried that this risk would be overlooked by consumers. As Paul H. Ruben explains: “This behavior is typical of the agency. It invariably places a much greater weight on any potential harm from a drug than on any benefit.”


Posted by therick711
South
Member since Jan 2008
25098 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

IMO, the reduction in innovation from abolishing patents is more tolerable than the insane prices the patent-holders charge.



I couldn't disagree more. That being said, better luck next constitution.
Posted by texashorn
Member since May 2008
13122 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:39 pm to
quote:

I tend to think the FDA is more the issue here and not the patent system.

This, x 100.

I took a lot of heat in the Canada drug thread for defending the patent system (which is a Constitutional role of the federal government), but there is no need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

Reform the FDA, for sure.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57234 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

What about anti-competitive corruption perpetuated by industry?
Perhaps I missed it. When did "industry" obtain the power to pass legislation and regulation without the aid of government?
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

We can limit the patents to the compounds and end this foolishness of patenting old compounds for new uses.


So, if some old compound has been sitting around and, I, due to my research and insight, identify that it has a fantastic new use, I can't patent it?

You do recognize the problem with that line of thinking, right?

Everyone whining about this issue fails on one very simple point.

ONLY in medical care does the public EXPECT that EVERYONE has access to shite the moment it's invented.

This view applies to NOTHING else on the market.

And, while it seems like a reasonable view, it's actually idiotic.

Drug A doesn't exist. If you need Drug A, you just die.

I spend billions developing drug A. Now, it exists and EVERYONE wants it THAT DAY. Like it was their right all along.

Now, everyone wants Drug A at a cost like it's been around forever.

Well. OK. Next time, you'll wait until goats can fly for me to develop drug B........so I fricking hope you only needed drug A!
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57234 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

It’s not hard to find cases of FDA abuse.
Clearly giving them absolute power will eliminate the corruption.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

IMO, the reduction in innovation from abolishing patents is more tolerable than the insane prices the patent-holders charge


I literally have no idea how a thinking person who is reasonably bright could come to this conclusion.

I get why some emotional ninny would, but not a thinking person.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 3:44 pm to
Quick people.

Name for me ANY other product where customers believe they have a right to access it the MOMENT it is developed at a price that would be more in line with if the product had existed 20 years.

Name ONE.

This drug "issue" is a complete NON issue.

It's emotional drivel.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 4:03 pm to
Well the patent as it applies to drugs that needs to be change is the patentability of new uses of generic compounds---particularly the granting of patents AND/OR patent like protection on compounds being used for the very same use as the applicant is applying for in other countries.

quote:

Self-policing on prices hasn’t been universal. Marathon Pharmaceuticals LLC caused an outcry two weeks ago when it set an $89,000-a-year starting price for a decades-old muscular-dystrophy treatment that Americans could get from abroad for $1,600 a year or less until Marathon won U.S. approval to sell it. After criticism in Congress and elsewhere, Marathon said it would delay the launch.


There is nothing right about whatever law or regulation that barred the importation of the drug Marathon is trying to sell after they got FDA approval for the same use it was being used for in Europe.

The patent like protection in this case is explained in this article from the WSJ (this drug should have been available here without any FDA say)

quote:

Updated Feb. 10, 2017 12:38 p.m. ET
774 COMMENTS
A drug to treat muscular dystrophy will hit the U.S. market with a price tag of $89,000 a year despite being available for decades in Europe at a fraction of that cost.

Marathon Pharmaceuticals LLC’s pricing of the drug, which has been available in Europe, is the latest example of a business model that has drawn ire from doctors, patients and legislators in recent years: cheaply acquiring older drugs and then drastically raising their prices.

The practice has prompted congressional investigations and hearings into companies including Valeant Pharmaceuticals International Inc. and Turing Pharmaceuticals LLC, the firm formerly run by onetime hedge-fund manager Martin Shkreli.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration on Thursday approved Marathon’s drug, a corticosteroid called deflazacort, to treat a rare type of muscular dystrophy that affects some 12,000 boys in the U.S., most of whom die in their 20s and 30s. The drug isn’t a cure, but it has been shown to improve muscle strength, the FDA said in a statement announcing the approval.

The drug wasn’t sold in the U.S. mainly because no company thought it would be profitable enough to warrant the effort of seeking FDA approval. But U.S. patients have been importing it from foreign countries since the 1990s after clinical trials showed its potential to reduce inflammation with fewer side effects than another steroid.

The price set by Marathon, based in Northbrook, Ill., is 50 to 70 times what most U.S. patients now pay to buy deflazacort from an online pharmacy in the United Kingdom, according to advocates for patients with Duchenne muscular dystrophy.

Christine McSherry of Pembroke, Mass., pays about $1,600 annually to buy deflazacort from the U.K. pharmacy for her son, Jett, she said.

But the pharmacy, operated by Masters Specialty Pharma, recently told customers it would stop shipping the drug to the U.S. after Marathon, based in Northbrook, Ill., received FDA approval for its version.

A Masters spokeswoman said in an email that the company is ending shipments to the U.S. “in compliance with U.S. FDA regulations,” which prohibit drug importation except under certain circumstances, such as when a drug isn’t available in the U.S
.
This post was edited on 2/27/17 at 4:08 pm
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 4:07 pm to
quote:

Well the patent as it applies to drugs that needs to be change is the patentability of new uses of generic compounds---particularly the granting of patents AND/OR patent like protection on compounds being used for the very same use as the applicant is applying for in other countries.


K.

And that's all good.

But that is different than the original post I responded to. You can't take away patents for figuring out new uses of old compounds.

Simply copying some else's use as you described? Yeah.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 4:11 pm to
quote:

You can't take away patents for figuring out new uses of old compounds.


No where else in chemistry does that exists. You can't patent a new use of nylon or of kevlar that I know of.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 4:22 pm to
quote:


No where else in chemistry does that exists. You can't patent a new use of nylon or of kevlar that I know of
you most certainly can. You can't patent the Kevlar or nylon but you damn f****** sure can patent the fact you figured out how to use Kevlar to make parachutes that can't have holes shot through them. Slow your roll man. Think before you type. The vast majority of new inventions are made from materials that already existed.
Posted by ShortyRob
Member since Oct 2008
82116 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 4:26 pm to
The f****** Topsy Tail received a patent and all that s*** was reshaping a f****** coat hanger and then making it using plastic
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 2/27/17 at 7:47 pm to
quote:

you most certainly can. You can't patent the Kevlar or nylon but you damn f****** sure can patent the fact you figured out how to use Kevlar to make parachutes that can't have holes shot through them


you made a new product---not a new compound
Posted by tigereye58
Member since Jan 2007
2668 posts
Posted on 2/28/17 at 9:35 am to
So a few issues here...

1.) There is certainly a problem with some drug companies charging crazy amounts for older drugs. I think that is wrong and needs to be corrected and adjusting the patent laws under those circumstances would be a good idea.

2.). You can't judge all drug companies the same. In fact the true "big pharma" companies get the bad wrap but are the ones taking the biggest risks on finding life saving drugs. The Pfizers, Merck, Roche, Amgen, BMS are truly innovative and deserve a patent system that rewards the risks and research being done.

3.). Part of the problem with drug pricing that has been exacerbated the last 10 years is insurance companies have narrowed what they are willing to pay which has decreased new products on the markets growth. Consequently the companies raise prices to capture more revenue from existing products. Lower volume means higher prices. Higher volume equals lower prices. It's no different in cheeseburgers at McDonald's or a higher end burger joint.
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