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Cost of the Death Penalty in Louisiana
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:19 am
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:19 am
I've seen more than a few debates on this board concerning the death penalty. They tend to be rather unwieldy as the question has a number of moving parts. With that said, I've been curious on a specific point for a while. No one is required to participate in this thread, but I would ask anyone who does to indulge me on staying utterly on point:
The death penalty is extremely expensive in its current form. Most debates I've seen revolve around ways to reduce that expense, and whether that can be done. In this thread, I would like to avoid that debate entirely. For the sake of discussion in this thread, I ask everyone to assume that the death penalty can't be administered in a way that is any cheaper than it is now, as it removes most of the more acrimonious moving parts.
If one assumes that to be true for the sake of argument, I pose the following question:
With the current financial situation the state finds itself in, do you believe the death penalty is worth the cost?
Unfortunately, I can't give an exact number as to how much the death penalty costs the state of Louisiana as the committee formed to study the issue (LINK ) has received an extension until 2018 (LINK ). However, California spends $184 million (LINK ) per year. As such, I think it's fair to say that Louisiana spends at minimum, tens of millions of dollars per year. Possibly substantially more.
With that said, again, do you believe this cost is worth it? If so, please explain why.
The death penalty is extremely expensive in its current form. Most debates I've seen revolve around ways to reduce that expense, and whether that can be done. In this thread, I would like to avoid that debate entirely. For the sake of discussion in this thread, I ask everyone to assume that the death penalty can't be administered in a way that is any cheaper than it is now, as it removes most of the more acrimonious moving parts.
If one assumes that to be true for the sake of argument, I pose the following question:
With the current financial situation the state finds itself in, do you believe the death penalty is worth the cost?
Unfortunately, I can't give an exact number as to how much the death penalty costs the state of Louisiana as the committee formed to study the issue (LINK ) has received an extension until 2018 (LINK ). However, California spends $184 million (LINK ) per year. As such, I think it's fair to say that Louisiana spends at minimum, tens of millions of dollars per year. Possibly substantially more.
With that said, again, do you believe this cost is worth it? If so, please explain why.
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Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:23 am to Joshjrn
Doesn't matter how much money it costs:
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for god made man in his own image" genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for god made man in his own image" genesis 9:6
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:27 am to Joshjrn
It's a joke the death penalty costs what it does. Buy a rope and use it until it breaks. The criminal didn't give a damn about the victim so why should the state?
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:27 am to Joshjrn
No amount of the People's money is too great for elected officials to spend in creating the illusion that they are "tough on crime".
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:30 am to Joshjrn
If I do something and got the death penalty. Please use this post as permission to use 5 simultaneous bullets to my head. Should be instantaneous death, right? Heck, if I suffer for 1 or 2 seconds, who cares. It's just a second or two.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:32 am to wryder1
quote:
It's a joke the death penalty costs what it does. Buy a rope and use it until it breaks. The criminal didn't give a damn about the victim so why should the state?
So you think the standards of our penal system should be set by and benchmarked against that of murderers?
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:38 am to Joshjrn
quote:
With that said, again, do you believe this cost is worth it? If so, please explain why.
It kind of depends IMO. Let's just suppose it's worth $60 million here. How much of that do we save if we abolish the death penalty? It can't be all of it, as enhanced security for these folks has to be a significant cost. If we nix the DP, aren't these offenders still going to require enhanced security? I don't really know, but I assume so. I'd be skeptical about the real size of the available savings.
Of course, I'd rather not have the DP regardless of this. But that would introduce costs as well.
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 11:39 am
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:41 am to Joshjrn
If the cost cannot be reduced, as you are asking us for the purposes of this discussion, then no, I am not in favor of it.
Only a fool fights in a burning house.
But, once we go down that road, then "life" doesn't really mean "life" then, because it isn't cost effective to imprison folks for life, either.
So, eventually we just need to educate folks and "treat" their problems better. Finally, we'll have Mogadishu.
And I'm not making the slippery slope argument, I'm literally calling them like I see them - if you freeze a problem the way you have, then there can be only 1 possible answer. Congratulations.
Only a fool fights in a burning house.
But, once we go down that road, then "life" doesn't really mean "life" then, because it isn't cost effective to imprison folks for life, either.
So, eventually we just need to educate folks and "treat" their problems better. Finally, we'll have Mogadishu.
And I'm not making the slippery slope argument, I'm literally calling them like I see them - if you freeze a problem the way you have, then there can be only 1 possible answer. Congratulations.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:41 am to Joshjrn
From a monetary standpoint alone the death penalty should be a thing of the past....it is all about satisfying the blood lust that is inherent in the human psyche....
Handing the power over to the state to take away someone's life on our behalf is the single most serious issue a society faces. If the system were infallible and we were always reasonably certain that no innocent person were ever put to death in our names it would be bad enough....knowing how the system works in the United States, arguably the best system on earth, it is simply impossible for a reasonable person to think the state is capable of being right in at least 999,999 out of 1 million cases....and even then that one person put to death on a mistake would be way too many....but the evidence is pretty damn clear that we would have killed a pile of innocent people in the US and have killed a pile.
There have been about 150 people exonerated of crimes they had been convicted of and sentenced to die for since 1973. 150 people. That is about 150 too damn many people for the state to have nearly put to death in my name....sorry, but I am not a christian and do not buy into the entire god dream that many of you suffer from so I don't see how it is in any way acceptable that we still sentence people to die in the United States when we know that about 150 have been innocent when we sentenced them to die.
I am sure that many here will say something to the effect of "try and hang in within a few minutes of sentencing....no need to wait around for appeal after appearl..."....yet most of these same people are convinced that all government is all bad all the time....it simply makes no sense....the state can't get anything right EXCEPT executing people...and then they are never wrong.
Seriously I can't for the life of me understand how any of you on the right who do not think Government does anything worthwhile or correctly can come to the conclusion that this...arguably the most important issue a society faces....taking the life of one of its members as punishment for a crime....is the one area where the state is always right, or even right enough that the occasional mistake is acceptable.
Handing the power over to the state to take away someone's life on our behalf is the single most serious issue a society faces. If the system were infallible and we were always reasonably certain that no innocent person were ever put to death in our names it would be bad enough....knowing how the system works in the United States, arguably the best system on earth, it is simply impossible for a reasonable person to think the state is capable of being right in at least 999,999 out of 1 million cases....and even then that one person put to death on a mistake would be way too many....but the evidence is pretty damn clear that we would have killed a pile of innocent people in the US and have killed a pile.
There have been about 150 people exonerated of crimes they had been convicted of and sentenced to die for since 1973. 150 people. That is about 150 too damn many people for the state to have nearly put to death in my name....sorry, but I am not a christian and do not buy into the entire god dream that many of you suffer from so I don't see how it is in any way acceptable that we still sentence people to die in the United States when we know that about 150 have been innocent when we sentenced them to die.
I am sure that many here will say something to the effect of "try and hang in within a few minutes of sentencing....no need to wait around for appeal after appearl..."....yet most of these same people are convinced that all government is all bad all the time....it simply makes no sense....the state can't get anything right EXCEPT executing people...and then they are never wrong.
Seriously I can't for the life of me understand how any of you on the right who do not think Government does anything worthwhile or correctly can come to the conclusion that this...arguably the most important issue a society faces....taking the life of one of its members as punishment for a crime....is the one area where the state is always right, or even right enough that the occasional mistake is acceptable.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:42 am to Joshjrn
It depends. How much does it cost to imprison an inmate and what do the figures include when figuring the cost of executing said inmate?
You have to know the answers to these two questions to have a cost basis. For instance...does the cost of execution include an inmates court costs for appeals? I've seen some that include this number, yet they typically are not included for an inmate that is imprisoned for Life.
In California, they estimate the cost of housing an inmate at $70,812 a year.
LINK
Those figures do not include anything about court costs, though. But, taking a cost of $70,812 a year for say 30-50 years or possibly longer...
An inmate staying in a California prison for:
20 years-$1,416,240
30 Years-$2,124,360
40 Years-$2,832,480
50 Years-$3,540,600
It is not unimaginable that an inmate put in prison could stay there for 50 years, since the average lifespan of a man is somewhere around 85 years old.
And these figures are based on expenses not going up in that 50 year time frame.
Gotta go out, but will check back in when i get back.
Great topic and interesting!
You have to know the answers to these two questions to have a cost basis. For instance...does the cost of execution include an inmates court costs for appeals? I've seen some that include this number, yet they typically are not included for an inmate that is imprisoned for Life.
In California, they estimate the cost of housing an inmate at $70,812 a year.
LINK
Those figures do not include anything about court costs, though. But, taking a cost of $70,812 a year for say 30-50 years or possibly longer...
An inmate staying in a California prison for:
20 years-$1,416,240
30 Years-$2,124,360
40 Years-$2,832,480
50 Years-$3,540,600
It is not unimaginable that an inmate put in prison could stay there for 50 years, since the average lifespan of a man is somewhere around 85 years old.
And these figures are based on expenses not going up in that 50 year time frame.
Gotta go out, but will check back in when i get back.
Great topic and interesting!
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 11:45 am
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:43 am to Joshjrn
Israel didn't have the death penalty. They executed Eichmann anyway. It just felt good. He didn't get 20 years of appeals.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:43 am to Robin Masters
quote:
So you think the standards of our penal system should be set by and benchmarked against that of murderers?
If milquetoast, tepid and ultimately ineffectual criminal justice and penal systems fail the public at large, they eventually will take the law into their own hands. And they'll be right.
It's a fine line, I'll admit, but it is there.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:47 am to Robin Masters
quote:
So you think the standards of our penal system should be set by and benchmarked against that of murderers?
No, death is death. Just kill the criminal and move on. Shoot him or hang them, I don't care. Both are quick and efficient.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:47 am to Joshjrn
How much does in cost to feed, house, medically treat, and secure these animals for the rest of their lives? Is that cheaper than the current death penalty?
In a perfect world it should be only administered in situations in which there is NO doubt. For example, you kill people on live tv, many witnesses in a mass shooting case, in court admission of guilt, the dead bodies in your possession. In these cases, the offender should be hung the next day. This would reduce cost for the death penalty astronomically.
In a perfect world it should be only administered in situations in which there is NO doubt. For example, you kill people on live tv, many witnesses in a mass shooting case, in court admission of guilt, the dead bodies in your possession. In these cases, the offender should be hung the next day. This would reduce cost for the death penalty astronomically.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:49 am to DawgsLife
quote:
It depends. How much does it cost to imprison an inmate and what do the figures include when figuring the cost of executing said inmate?
You have to know the answers to these two questions to have a cost basis. For instance...does the cost of execution include an inmates court costs for appeals? I've seen some that include this number, yet they typically are not included for an inmate that is imprisoned for Life.
In California, they estimate the cost of housing an inmate at %70,812 a year.
LINK
Those figures do not include anything about court costs, though. But, taking a cost of $70,812 a year for say 30-50 years or possibly longer...
An inmate staying in a California prison for:
20 years-$1,416,240
30 Years-$2,124,360
40 Years-$2,832,480
50 Years-$3,540,600
It is not unimaginable that an inmate put in prison could stay there for 50 years, since the average lifespan of a man is somewhere around 85 years old.
And these figures are based on expenses not going up in that 50 year time frame.
Gotta go out, but will check back in when i get back.
Great topic and interesting!
I have often thought that Prisoners duly convicted should be offered the choice of being put down, as humanely as possible (I don't know if there is a humane way to do it) and their families be given half of what the state would have spent imprisoning them for 20, 30 whatever amount of years.
Take you 30 year figure...send the inmates family a check for $1.06 million and put the bastard down if he agrees....
I can't imagine being 20 years old lets say and staring at 50 years in a prison. I know very few 20 year olds convicted for life serve that sentence but some do...and many in their 30's would, I bet, be more than happy to end it all and have their families wind up with a little money than simply rotting away in prison....
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:54 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for god made man in his own image" genesis 9:6
Isn't there also something in that infernal book about not judging lest you be judged? In about 150 cases since 1973 a judge broke that tenet and sent innocent people to death row. Luckily for those 150 people something occurred which exonerated them...how many have been sentenced to die without being guilty and have actually died? One is one too many for the state to kill in my name....
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:57 am to cssamerican
quote:
How much does in cost to feed, house, medically treat, and secure these animals for the rest of their lives? Is that cheaper than the current death penalty?
Sadly it is in a lot of cases. We could be asking, "Why is that so?" But the OP wants us to focus on assuming that fact can't change, so we can all agree with him the death penalty must be abolished then. It is a clever rhetorical technique.
This post was edited on 4/1/17 at 11:57 am
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:58 am to germandawg
quote:
Isn't there also something in that infernal book about not judging lest you be judged?
SOOOO, we're putting germandawg in the "Votes for Mogadishu" column.
Good to know.
Posted on 4/1/17 at 11:58 am to cssamerican
quote:
In a perfect world it should be only administered in situations in which there is NO doubt. For example, you kill people on live tv, many witnesses in a mass shooting case, in court admission of guilt, the dead bodies in your possession. In these cases, the offender should be hung the next day. This would reduce cost for the death penalty astronomically.
I agree with this. I am for the death penalty in principle, but I don't trust our government to deliver the mail correctly, much less administer capital punishment.
There should be a degree of capital crime where there is no room for even a shade of doubt, where the death penalty is administered within 30 days of the trial. What appeals does Dylan Roof deserve?
Posted on 4/1/17 at 12:01 pm to germandawg
quote:
I don't know if there is a humane way to do it
Of course there is - long drop hanging - a technique as old as gravity itself, can be professionally done in a way that is absolutely painless and instantaneous. If you want to spend a little more money, build chambers that induce acute, fatal hypoxia. Most pilots undergo training that simulates the conditions that result in this and describe the sensation as euphoric, pleasant even.
So, please stay focused on agreeing with the OP. If death penalty costs can't go down, we need to chuck it.
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