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re: Convince me why I should care if Trump worked with Russia
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:01 pm to a want
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:01 pm to a want
quote:
He changed his stance in Crimea shortly after hiring Manafort. If there was any sort of quid pro quo with the Wikileaks deal, that's incredibly problematic
Didn't the first Wikileaks release happen right around the time of the Manafort hiring, just before the RNC?
Hired Manafort> changed stance on Crimea > Wikileaks first release > RNC.
1
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:07 pm to Douboy
quote:
How? Please answer one of us.
If stolen info released to the public changes one person's vote it has effected our democratic process.
If it changed as few as 100K votes spread across a few key states then it decided who would be president.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:08 pm to The Spleen
quote:
The same ones that are 110% convinced there is massive voter fraud and we must do all we can to make voting as difficult as possible.
Russia could have hacked election. We should address that.
Bad people are going to do bad things
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:11 pm to thelawnwranglers
If we are going to worry about party security should be FOIA covered
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:13 pm to a want
quote:
changed his stance on Crimea shortly after hiring Manafort (more favorable toward Russia). If there was any sort of quid pro quo
If there is quid pro quo I care (support impeachment)
That said I don't care about crimea
This post was edited on 5/12/17 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:16 pm to The Spleen
I think the hack happened in late spring. The leaks spread out over the next 6 months or so.
Of course manafort worked for a pro-Putin group before coming on board with trump....so... I mean that whole gig is knowing people and getting them to help you. Regardless of party or candidate, that job is black arts.
i think the central problem for Trump will be: he knew there was a leak that could damage the national security of the US and instead of trying to thwart it, he tried to take advantage. It's important to remember or at least entertain the idea (for trump supporters) that Trump really didn't plan on having to fulfill any of these promises because he didn't think he was going to win at that time.
Remember how Rubio and I believe Jeb distanced themselves in a big way when this happened? Rubio was very vocal. He said hacking by Russia (regardless of the target) was a national security issue? I think something along those lines will be what sinks trump.
Of course manafort worked for a pro-Putin group before coming on board with trump....so... I mean that whole gig is knowing people and getting them to help you. Regardless of party or candidate, that job is black arts.
i think the central problem for Trump will be: he knew there was a leak that could damage the national security of the US and instead of trying to thwart it, he tried to take advantage. It's important to remember or at least entertain the idea (for trump supporters) that Trump really didn't plan on having to fulfill any of these promises because he didn't think he was going to win at that time.
Remember how Rubio and I believe Jeb distanced themselves in a big way when this happened? Rubio was very vocal. He said hacking by Russia (regardless of the target) was a national security issue? I think something along those lines will be what sinks trump.
This post was edited on 5/12/17 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:17 pm to a want
quote:
leak that could damage the national security of the US
LOL. Wut?
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:20 pm to Haughton99
quote:
If stolen(OR ILLEGALLY OBTAINED) info released to the public changes one person's vote it has effected our democratic process.
Um.
Harry Reid says hi.
Well, him and basically every MSM outlet in existence.
Please recognize that you don't even believe what you typed.
And that's before we get to just made up horse shite info.........like, funny how those dozen or so woman assaulted by Trump suddenly disappeared into the ether.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:20 pm to a want
First release was the day after the GOP convention. I know Trump changed the GOP's Crimea/Ukraine stance in the days before the convention.
Convention ended 7/21/16
First release was 7/22/16
One of the releases was also one hour after the Access Hollywood "grab her by the pussy" tape was released.
Convention ended 7/21/16
First release was 7/22/16
One of the releases was also one hour after the Access Hollywood "grab her by the pussy" tape was released.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:22 pm to Haughton99
Haughton is exactly right here. I amazed this is even a topic of discussion.
I live full time in Eastern Europe though I happen to be in the USA now doing some business deals.
In my country there are two extremely pro-Russian parties. One is almost over the top (wants the USSR back), the other one just says they want "good relations" (of course good relations means us leaving NATO, having Russian be an official second language, etc.).
Then there are some centrist parties.
Then there are some very openly pro West, pro USA, pro Freedom, Pro European parties.
Every day there is some news about virtually all of these parties (elections are in around two months). The moment anything is written about a "Russian" party the internet portals and message boards are bombarde with literally dozens of messages saying how these are great politicians, we need them as our leaders, this is the way forward to peace, etc.
The moment that something is written about one of the Pro Western and Pro American parties, the same bombardment takes place, these are the parties of war, America sucks, Capitalism isn't all that great, we need more security and less freedom (so we can have the security - that is always a trade off), Ukraine sucks, NATO sucks, Russia is great, etc.
As they develop their English language skills, watch them do this more and more on Amerian websites.
THAT is why we should care about this. It really is a diabolical plot to hurt Wester Democracies and countries that don't want to live the oligarch capitalism of Russia.
I live full time in Eastern Europe though I happen to be in the USA now doing some business deals.
In my country there are two extremely pro-Russian parties. One is almost over the top (wants the USSR back), the other one just says they want "good relations" (of course good relations means us leaving NATO, having Russian be an official second language, etc.).
Then there are some centrist parties.
Then there are some very openly pro West, pro USA, pro Freedom, Pro European parties.
Every day there is some news about virtually all of these parties (elections are in around two months). The moment anything is written about a "Russian" party the internet portals and message boards are bombarde with literally dozens of messages saying how these are great politicians, we need them as our leaders, this is the way forward to peace, etc.
The moment that something is written about one of the Pro Western and Pro American parties, the same bombardment takes place, these are the parties of war, America sucks, Capitalism isn't all that great, we need more security and less freedom (so we can have the security - that is always a trade off), Ukraine sucks, NATO sucks, Russia is great, etc.
As they develop their English language skills, watch them do this more and more on Amerian websites.
THAT is why we should care about this. It really is a diabolical plot to hurt Wester Democracies and countries that don't want to live the oligarch capitalism of Russia.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:23 pm to The Spleen
quote:
First release was the day after the GOP convention. I know Trump changed the GOP's Crimea/Ukraine stance in the days before the convention. Convention ended 7/21/16 First release was 7/22/16 One of the releases was also one hour after the Access Hollywood "grab her by the pussy" tape was released.
Yeah, that doesn't look too good for team Trump
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:23 pm to Eurocat
quote:
THAT is why we should care about this. It really is a diabolical plot to hurt Wester Democracies and countries that don't want to live the oligarch capitalism of Russia.
So.
To summarize.
They arrived to a party we've been holding for 5 decades a shade late?
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:24 pm to a want
quote:
a want
You have lost it
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:25 pm to Eurocat
quote:
Eurocat
I'd like to point out that you could have shortened your post to simply say, "yep, American(and voters in general) are easily manipulated.
But, that might require you to acknowledge that no matter what the frick Russia is doing, the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC etc etc do in spades and affect a LOT more people.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:26 pm to The Spleen
quote:
First release was the day after the GOP convention. I know Trump changed the GOP's Crimea/Ukraine stance in the days before the convention.
Convention ended 7/21/16
First release was 7/22/16
One of the releases was also one hour after the Access Hollywood "grab her by the pussy" tape was released.
Timing concerning
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:26 pm to ShortyRob
I am not following you shorty.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:26 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
You have lost it
Which part warranted the rofl?
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:28 pm to Navytiger74
What's the difference in this and how Dems handled Hillary's shite. Play it off, and drag it out long enough, eventually we'll just start saying "people are tired of hearing about these damn emails". Except, in her case, she blatantly broke many laws.
I honestly dont think Trump helped "rig" the election. If Russia did it, they did it on their own, BUT IF Trump had dealings with Russia during that time, which he probably did, that does not mean he was a part of said rigging. So, no, as someone who doesnt like Trump or Hillary, I already dgaf whether evidence comes out or not.
They have made evidence on Hilary public, yet nothing has been done, so I expect the same treatment to Trump if evidence comes out that he has, in fact, committed the act. Then comes the fact of "intent" that the left loves to play. Did he intend to change the course of the election? Proof can never be made of that without a smoking gun, phone call, etc.
AND even with proof positive evidence, do you think a republican led house/sen is going to impeach their president after the shite they let Hilary walk on? Absolutely not, they are going to rub it in the Dem's face as long as they can, as they should.
I honestly dont think Trump helped "rig" the election. If Russia did it, they did it on their own, BUT IF Trump had dealings with Russia during that time, which he probably did, that does not mean he was a part of said rigging. So, no, as someone who doesnt like Trump or Hillary, I already dgaf whether evidence comes out or not.
They have made evidence on Hilary public, yet nothing has been done, so I expect the same treatment to Trump if evidence comes out that he has, in fact, committed the act. Then comes the fact of "intent" that the left loves to play. Did he intend to change the course of the election? Proof can never be made of that without a smoking gun, phone call, etc.
AND even with proof positive evidence, do you think a republican led house/sen is going to impeach their president after the shite they let Hilary walk on? Absolutely not, they are going to rub it in the Dem's face as long as they can, as they should.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:28 pm to a want
quote:
Yeah, that doesn't look too good for team Trump
This is what you are reduced to. He sat next to people and timing as your evidence.
Here's some evidence you can't avoid using that standard.
The IC was looking at this shite for a least 6 months prior to Trump taking office.
We know that they were listening in on Trump and his team. We know that the information was being unmasked.
This means that we also KNOW that whatever info is out there, Obama knew it.
This means......that if your delusions are true
Obama knew it and did nothing.
Or, maybe, just maybe........there ain't jack shite there.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:28 pm to thelawnwranglers
Only low IQ people believe Trump worked with the Russians during the election.
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