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Message
re: Convince me why I should care if Trump worked with Russia
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:29 pm to Eurocat
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:29 pm to Eurocat
quote:
I am not following you shorty.
You're not following?
quote:
I'd like to point out that you could have shortened your post to simply say, "yep, American(and voters in general) are easily manipulated.
1
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:30 pm to Haughton99
quote:
If stolen info released to the public changes one person's vote it has effected our democratic process.
Not if there is credence to that info. Why would you not want to know the truth?
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:31 pm to a want
quote:
Which part warranted the rofl?
All of it. Add in your mutiple daily threads linking opinion pieces and you have gone to another level.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:31 pm to ShortyRob
I was replying to your previous post.
The media you complain about is nothing like the concerted efforts of a foreign agency.
The media you complain about is nothing like the concerted efforts of a foreign agency.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:32 pm to The_Duke
quote:
and she lost---sooo what's you point?
So someone can do something ILLEGAL, lose an election, and all sins are forgiven? Well shiver me timbers batman, I had no idea bout that law.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:37 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
Under this hypothetical, you can not grasp why a geopolitical foe, who hands a presidential candidate information to aide his campaign, and instead of alerting authorities - publicly outing and denouncing this criminal act to influence our election and undercut our democratic process - he decides instead to collude, use and lie about it to win an election?
So are you saying this is a hypothetical, or what happened? If the exact story you are presenting is the hypothetical story, ye, I agree with you. However, if he was simply handed information, used it to his advantage, but did not CONTINUE on to colluding with Russia, then I am on his side. That is not collusion if you simply received something, but never communicated back on that topic. Obviously the receipt of that would have to have been unprovoked by Trump, or it would have been collusion.
But, let us go into another hypothetical. Hypothetically, Trump received, without his request, information on Hillary/Dems. At this point, if I were in Trumps shoes, ofcourse I'm going to use the information, and OF COURSE I'm NOT going to the police/media about it. He would have been absolutely thrown under the bus and condemned for "colluding with Russians" when he was trying to do the right think. This is simple opportunity cost. If I do the right thing, and reveal this, I simply get fricked, or I can take my chances, and probably not get fricked. Going with the latter all day.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:43 pm to The Spleen
quote:
And they used that hacked info to interfere with our democratic process.
What the difference in how they used the information, and how the media uses "leaks". You dont think some of those leaks are made by way of hacks? If not, look into WikiLeaks, maybe youve heard of them. They arent ever on the hook for "interfering with democratic process". Its simple freedom of the press. People have the RIGHT to know. If you dont want shite like that to come out about you, dont make yourself a target by being 1)a pres candidate and 2) a blumbering, omniscient, conceited, idiot
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:44 pm to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Not if there is credence to that info. Why would you not want to know the truth?
That's a completely different conversation. The issue was whether if effected the process. The public's right to see the info once it is stolen is a whole other issue.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:45 pm to Haughton99
quote:
That's a completely different conversation. The issue was whether if effected the process
So the women and Gloria Steinem interfered with the Democratic process.
So does anyone who publishes anything that changed a single vote
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:46 pm to Haughton99
quote:
If stolen info released to the public changes one person's vote it has effected our democratic process.
If it changed as few as 100K votes spread across a few key states then it decided who would be president.
Go after every newpaper/media broadcast in America then. If Ashley Madison leak had changed an election, would we prosecute the media for publishing it upon them receiving stolen information from hackers? No. Russia played the media here. They "had" information. Simply passed it along, and the media ran with it
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:48 pm to CptBengal
quote:
So the women and Gloria Steinem interfered with the Democratic process.
So does anyone who publishes anything that changed a single vote
Sure. Were any of your examples breaking the law?
Even you can see the difference between your examples and another nation doing nefarious things to effect an outcome.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:50 pm to darnol91
quote:
Go after every newpaper/media broadcast in America then. If Ashley Madison leak had changed an election, would we prosecute the media for publishing it upon them receiving stolen information from hackers?
Is anyone talking about going after the newspapers who published the stolen info?
quote:
No. Russia played the media here. They "had" information. Simply passed it along, and the media ran with it
If you want to be Russia's defender go for it.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:55 pm to Haughton99
Im not being a russia defender, or blaming the media. Im comparing that the media changes votes ALL the time with illegally obtained information.
Dems are wanting to blame trump for something Russia did. It was DNC's (and Hilary's) job to keep their intellectual property safe. They were unable to do that, and Russia stole it. Point blank. At that point, Russia turned over that info to media outlets, who ran with it.
It's not being Pro Russia to say dont blame a person for something a country did.
Dems are wanting to blame trump for something Russia did. It was DNC's (and Hilary's) job to keep their intellectual property safe. They were unable to do that, and Russia stole it. Point blank. At that point, Russia turned over that info to media outlets, who ran with it.
It's not being Pro Russia to say dont blame a person for something a country did.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 4:58 pm to Eurocat
quote:you are correct. They are worse. Far more prolific. Far more Insidious. And far more effective
The media you complain about is nothing like the concerted efforts of a foreign agency.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 5:05 pm to thelawnwranglers
quote:
Assumptions:
- Russia or agents tied to Russia got DNC and Podesta emails
- for purposes of this discussion Trump's Team discussed release timing with Russia or surrogates
Why should I care?
Apparently Pepe doesn't care about treason. Colluding with a country we have impressed sanctions on, seems as anti American as it gets.
Posted on 5/12/17 at 5:25 pm to CCTider
quote:
Apparently Pepe doesn't care about treason.
Being supplied Podesta email is treason?
Comment earlier that phishing is a crime
Agreed - I don't think Trump did that. If he had direct contact and didn't tell authorities that's issue.
I think leaking didn't need collusion. The real concern is quid pro quo
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