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re: Coal industry aint coming back;Not worth enviormental pollution so GOP can claim a "win"
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:09 am to Obtuse1
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:09 am to Obtuse1
quote:
coal plants keep closing due to lack of economic viability
Can't have to do with regs. You know...when Obama said a company woyld bankrupt itself building a new one? Kind of like nuclear?
1
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:13 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:A blip because of increased exports due to various global issues in coal distribution. Still won't stop the multi year trend. But you probably knew that.
Do you even check your opinionated facts before posting? The article is from April of this year.
Domestic coal usage, which is what this thread is about, continues to decline rapidly.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:16 am to udtiger
quote:
Can't have to do with regs. You know...when Obama said a company woyld bankrupt itself building a new one? Kind of like nuclear?
Certainly newer regulations have made it less cost effective BUT even conventional coal is still FAR more expensive than the latest generation of NG plants which are 35% cheaper per megawatthour and much cleaner than even advanced coal with CCS.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:17 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Domestic coal usage, which is what this thread is about, continues to decline rapidly.
Link it up. I'd be interested in the numbers.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:18 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Nuclear power will kill it over the next 10-20 years.
Not until they figure out a pathway for wastes. If Yucca ever gets approved then I would agree with you. If California wants to ban gasoline vehicles within 20 years, they are going to have no choice but to rely on coal fired power to generate the massive amount of electricity they are going to need.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:25 am to Bison
You idiot democrats still believe in pollution after 97% of scientists admitted to lying about it and that it was all a hoax?
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:29 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:LINK
Link it up. I'd be interested in the numbers.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:33 am to 10MTNTiger
quote:I will agree a bit on the waste issue.
Not until they figure out a pathway for wastes. If Yucca ever gets approved then I would agree with you. If California wants to ban gasoline vehicles within 20 years, they are going to have no choice but to rely on coal fired power to generate the massive amount of electricity they are going to need.
With respect to California, they don't use any coal for electricity generation. I doubt they would open any new coal power plants.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:40 am to mmcgrath
quote:
With respect to California, they don't use any coal for electricity generation. I doubt they would open any new coal power plants.
What are you talking about? California gets just under 5% of its overall electrical power from coal fired power plants...it's listed upfront on the state's own website LINK
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:41 am to Bison
quote:
Coal industry aint coming back
Going well here in Appalachia and W.V.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:42 am to 10MTNTiger
quote:
If California wants to ban gasoline vehicles within 20 years, they are going to have no choice but to rely on coal fired power to generate the massive amount of electricity they are going to need.
There is certainly going to be an increase in electricity consumption when we move closer to all electric cars across the US. We may have to initially bring some coal plants back on line but possible not depending on advances in renewables and storage in the interim as well as nuclear waste disposal. One good thing about electric cars re grid demand is much of the charging will be done at off peak hours and simply take better advantage of current grid capacity.
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 6:44 am
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:45 am to mmcgrath
quote:
LINK
Thank you but I'm still skeptical of your original statement seeing as to how that report is from July of 2015. I think by the end of this year we will have a clearer picture of what the coal impact on our country is.
I don't know the answer to this question and maybe you don't either but what source of energy is scheduled to run out first, coal or NG, based on today's usage?
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:46 am to CoachDon
quote:
Going well here in Appalachia and W.V.
By what metric? If I didn't know better I would think you were being sarcastic.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 6:48 am to Obtuse1
quote:
significantly more expensive
The only thing is, coal isn't significantly more expensive than natural gas at $3 per 1000 cu ft. If natural gas is down in the 1.50 to 2.50 per 1000 price range, then coal is more expensive.
This is the real reason coal went in the dumps, not Obama environmental policies. Look at gas prices during O's term. A crash from 13.5 to 2.5 in from mid 2008 to early 2009. Then no more than a couple of months at a time touching even $5 natural gas.
If one accepts that natural gas won't be going back to 6 to 10 per 1000 range anytime soon, you realize any "come back" for the coal industry won't be that great.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:06 am to LSU0358
quote:
The only thing is, coal isn't significantly more expensive than natural gas at $3 per 1000 cu ft.
Fuel cost is not the only thing that drives final production cost of electricity. The levelized cost per 100 megawatthours for conventional coal is $100.10 where the levelized cost per megawatthour for natural gas fired advanced combined cycle generation is $65.60. These are the current costs but still allows for a lot of NG price fluctuation to still be cheaper than conventional coal, advanced coal with CCS is over $135 per megawatthour.
This post was edited on 10/10/17 at 7:12 am
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:11 am to 10MTNTiger
quote:4.13% is "just under" 5%?
What are you talking about? California gets just under 5% of its overall electrical power from coal fired power plants...it's listed upfront on the state's own website LINK
Almost all of that is energy added to their power grid from just outside their state. About 4%. Not exactly dependent or even a significant use.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:11 am to Obtuse1
quote:
By what metric? If I didn't know better I would think you were being sarcastic.
I finance mining equipment. I'm at mine sites across the Eastern US pretty often. While volume is nowhere near where it was 5+ years ago, there are a lot of operations that have picked up a hell of a sharp pace. Additionally, I've met with strong investors that moved back into the Appachia area from New York to Canada and Australia. These folks are moving in and backing, or taking over failed operations unable to recover from the recent downturn caused by Obama.
The volume and demand for MET coal is high and the price is damn nice per ton. Even a year ago, these sites were abandoned. Today, many are running 3 fricking shifts.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:13 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:March 2017.
Thank you but I'm still skeptical of your original statement seeing as to how that report is from July of 2015.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:15 am to Bison
well son 40% of your electricity in texas is produced by burning coal. i know you think you checked the windmill box but that's not how things work....even a little bit. so you walk around your apartment...oh i'm sorry your "gated community" and you look at 40% of the things you "own" and by own i mean rent, and tell me what 40% you can do without.
congrats son......
congrats son......
Posted on 10/10/17 at 7:21 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Coal plants are closing in record numbers with over 20 slated to close in the next few years. They are closing based on market projections, simple business.
They were closing because Obama put regulations on them that made it impossible for them to remain open. We'll see how Trump removing those bullshite regulations work out for them.
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