- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Can someone explain TOPS to me?
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:33 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:33 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Whether you agree with it or not, its mission was to keep the best and brightest in Louisiana, which is a noble mission.
Of course, politicians have bastardized it beyond recognition, but it was not started as an entitlement.
This is bullshite. Tops was started to help poor kids who didn't have the financial means go to college if they got good grades.
Then the state took it over, opened it to everyone and lowered the grade requirements.
I laugh at conservatives who fight for Tops but oppose welfare. This is welfare and too many kids get it who's parents make plenty of money
2
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:34 pm to lionward2014
quote:
That said, it has become a hand out. I have seen numerous people lose it after a semester and drop out, and really they shouldn't have been in school anyway but with free money might as well go party for a semester. The requirements need to be raised dramatically if it remains, and also wouldn't mind seeing there being some income based restrictions on top of the merit based standards. Ideally it would become a 3.5+ GPA, 25-27+ ACT, and a household income of under 200% of the federal poverty guidelines for Louisiana. That would get it back to its original purpose of giving deserving students who normally couldn't attend college a chance to attend, which has clear benefits for the state.
I'd be on board with it being a scholarship for the not-quite-best & brightest. 27 & a 3.5 would probably be fine, with some sort of disincentive for leaving LA
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:34 pm to 90proofprofessional
I ask for a link to support this:
Linking to some random article is a complete waste of time unless it is a photo of an attractive woman!
quote:
quote: And the majority of the people that support TOPS complain about subsidies for healthcare, the government bailing out the student loan industry, or anyone that gets any type of handout from the government.
Linking to some random article is a complete waste of time unless it is a photo of an attractive woman!
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:35 pm to 90proofprofessional
You are welcome to argue the success of the program. I was merely discussing the concept behind the program from the beginning.
Louisiana was kind of a trailblazer on this type of program, which doesn't happen often. Other states and regions are now following suit.
The program needs a serious overhaul, but should be kept in some form.
Louisiana was kind of a trailblazer on this type of program, which doesn't happen often. Other states and regions are now following suit.
The program needs a serious overhaul, but should be kept in some form.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:36 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Republicans support education and know that their constituents are educated.
Another option that I think would be better than the current one would be to immediately cut TOPS 100% & put that funding directly to the LSU/UL system
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:36 pm to Lsujacket66
quote:
This is bull shite. Tops was started to help poor kids who didn't have the financial means go to college if they got good grades.
You are wrong. Tops has never had a financial component. It was always open to everyone that met the academic requirement.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:37 pm to Gaspergou202
quote:
Linking to some random article
That "random article" is a clear demonstration, by action of a republican-dominated body, of the priorities that other poster asserted, man
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:37 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
You are welcome to argue the success of the program. I was merely discussing the concept behind the program from the beginning.
Louisiana was kind of a trailblazer on this type of program, which doesn't happen often. Other states and regions are now following suit.
The program needs a serious overhaul, but should be kept in some form.
1. The state shouldn't run it
2. Should have financial need
3. Academic standards should be raised
4. If you don't finish it should convert to a loan
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:39 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
You are welcome to argue the success of the program. I was merely discussing the concept behind the program from the beginning.
I don't even think the program is a real attempt at reaching the goal you're describing as its concept. It's so far from the target that the concept just sounds like rhetorical bullshite to me
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:39 pm to 90proofprofessional
If it were earmarked for scholarships for Louisiana residents, then I guess it would accomplish about the same thing. Except students in other schools would not be able to receive it.
Plenty of good students attend community colleges for a couple of years for financial reasons and then transfer to 4 year schools.
Plenty of good students attend community colleges for a couple of years for financial reasons and then transfer to 4 year schools.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:40 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
quote:
This is bull shite. Tops was started to help poor kids who didn't have the financial means go to college if they got good grades.
You are wrong. Tops has never had a financial component. It was always open to everyone that met the academic requirement.
you don't know wtf you're talking about. LINK
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:42 pm to 90proofprofessional
You don't know anyone that stayed in Louisiana because of TOPS?
I know a lot. Of course that's not proof of its success, just my observations.
I don't know the stats.
I am 100 percent against any means testing for this program. That would officially make it a handout.
I know a lot. Of course that's not proof of its success, just my observations.
I don't know the stats.
I am 100 percent against any means testing for this program. That would officially make it a handout.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:43 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
I agree in theory, but I added that for two reasons.
First, it does kind of feel like a hand out, at least in its current form, and it's hard to justify a kid from a home with an income of $100k in Louisiana needing a hand out. If we raise the standards it would feel more like a scholarship, and I think I would be more comfortable not having it being means-tested.
Second, the argument will be raising standards disproportionately harms minorities, so by being means-tested it is more politically likely to be tolerable, since the counter is by denying it you are denying the lower income kids/minorities an opportunity. It's not a good argument, but we've seen the struggles to close failing schools like SUNO, and even the argument when TOPS was threatened last year, so it needs to at least be considered when thinking of reforms. Unfortunately Louisiana is the reddest socialist state in the Union, everyone hates hand outs until theirs is threatened.
First, it does kind of feel like a hand out, at least in its current form, and it's hard to justify a kid from a home with an income of $100k in Louisiana needing a hand out. If we raise the standards it would feel more like a scholarship, and I think I would be more comfortable not having it being means-tested.
Second, the argument will be raising standards disproportionately harms minorities, so by being means-tested it is more politically likely to be tolerable, since the counter is by denying it you are denying the lower income kids/minorities an opportunity. It's not a good argument, but we've seen the struggles to close failing schools like SUNO, and even the argument when TOPS was threatened last year, so it needs to at least be considered when thinking of reforms. Unfortunately Louisiana is the reddest socialist state in the Union, everyone hates hand outs until theirs is threatened.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:43 pm to Lsujacket66
quote:
2. Should have financial need
disagree. should just go to kids who won't get the big scholarships but have actual potential. if any financial need component exists, it shouldn't be anything other than a household income ineligibility threshold, and a relatively high one at that, like $200,000 or something. i certainly would be on board for drop-out repayment requirement too
quote:
1. The state shouldn't run it
but why do you say this, and else did you have in mind
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:45 pm to CapperVin
Tops was a way to funnel money to state institutions without directly funding state institutions.
State funding of universities went drastically down at the same time tops was instituted, and as funding to universities was cut over time, tuition at said universities has more then tripled, thus what the state pays for tops has goes up accordingly.
shell game
State funding of universities went drastically down at the same time tops was instituted, and as funding to universities was cut over time, tuition at said universities has more then tripled, thus what the state pays for tops has goes up accordingly.
shell game
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:46 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Another option that I think would be better than the current one would be to immediately cut TOPS 100% & put that funding directly to the LSU/UL system
I think we would get more band for Louisiana's bucks if we turn this into a student loan system with a twist.
Keep grade and test requirements etc.
But make the student pay it off as a conventional student loan from the state, OR credit dollar for dollar from their Louisiana income tax payments.
Example borrow $50,000 for tuition. Pay $30,000 in Louisiana state income taxes but leave state, owe state $20,000 pluse normal interest.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:47 pm to jackmanusc
Wow, only one UV for this. Tough crowd tonight
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:47 pm to Lsujacket66
The Taylor Plan and TOPS are not the same thing. They have roots in the same program, but they are not the same.
TAP (Tuition Assistant Plan) was the Taylor Plan started in the 80s. It had an income cap.
TOPS started in 1997 and never had an income cap.
TAP (Tuition Assistant Plan) was the Taylor Plan started in the 80s. It had an income cap.
TOPS started in 1997 and never had an income cap.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:48 pm to CapperVin
I thought time of possession was a key to winning.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:49 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
You don't know anyone that stayed in Louisiana because of TOPS?
like permanently, who wouldn't have very likely wound up here anyway? i mean, think it through. where would these folks have gone to school? were they all just barely-missing out on scholarships in LA, and getting them elsewhere? or did they have college options out of state that were so much cheaper it would have been worth going there?
honestly it's really hard to think of many, maybe a half dozen folks who between them worked in LA a total of ten years between them (mostly class of 02-04). i think the best & brightest, or nearly-best & brightest, tend to go to bigger job markets anyway.
ironically i didn't get TOPS (didn't go to high school here) and I will probably stay here, although I worked out of state immediately upon graduation and until 2012
Page 2 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News