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re: Can someone explain TOPS to me?
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:50 pm to 90proofprofessional
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:50 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:
quote:
2. Should have financial need
disagree. should just go to kids who won't get the big scholarships but have actual potential. if any financial need component exists, it shouldn't be anything other than a household income ineligibility threshold, and a relatively high one at that, like $200,000 or something. i certainly would be on board for drop-out repayment requirement too
quote:
1. The state shouldn't run it
but why do you say this, and else did you have in mind
I agree it should be a high income threshold, but I know some people who's fam makes 2-300k a year and got TOPs which is bullshite.
The repayment is essential for long term success because this will stop a lot of kids who go to school for 1-2 semesters for free then drop out.
And because the government does nothing well. A 5 person appointed 501c3 could do it much cheaper, more efficiently, fairly and more effective
1
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:50 pm to Lsujacket66
quote:
This is bullshite. Tops was started to help poor kids who didn't have the financial means go to college if they got good grades. Then the state took it over, opened it to everyone and lowered the grade requirements. I laugh at conservatives who fight for Tops but oppose welfare. This is welfare and too many kids get it who's parents make plenty of money
Totally true. The whole TOPS system is a joke with the current grade requirements. They need to make the minimum GPA around 3.5 and ACT of 27. Kids who make less than a 3.0 in high school do not belong in college.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:52 pm to Lsujacket66
quote:
And because the government does nothing well. A 5 person appointed 501c3 could do it much cheaper, more efficiently, fairly and more effective
i mean that's fair enough as a general principle, but my understanding was that this program was more or less automatic. i don't see how it could have much waste
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:54 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:
mean that's fair enough as a general principle, but my understanding was that this program was more or less automatic. i don't see how it could have much waste
You think the state just automatically hands out all of this $?
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:55 pm to lionward2014
quote:I understand the sentiment, but a merit based program should reward a student based on his or her qualifications, regardless of economic status, IF public funds are used. If there's a gravy train mentality, and I'm going to be fricked by having to support it, if my kid qualifies then this class warfare bullshite should go out the window and my kid get his fair share based on his or her hard work. Why should I be penalized twice for being successful? Once for all the taxes and second at being unable to benefit from use of my taxes.
Ideally it would become a 3.5+ GPA, 25-27+ ACT, and a household income of under 200% of the federal poverty guidelines for Louisiana.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:55 pm to MC5601
quote:
Totally true. The whole TOPS system is a joke with the current grade requirements. They need to make the minimum GPA around 3.5 and ACT of 27. Kids who make less than a 3.0 in high school do not belong in college.
Legislators kids and friends kids who didn't have the grades... so they adjusted rules.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:57 pm to CapperVin
I always saw TOPS as the one thing in Louisiana that actually benefited the middle class that works their arse off to pay for all of the leeches in Louisiana.
TOPS has historically been the one thing that earners in Louisiana could look to positively regarding taxes when getting out and grinding every day.
frick all y'all that wanted the Medicaid expansion that will destroy us eventually while bitching about TOPS.
Taking away TOPS while expanding Medicaid just makes everyone want to move to Texas and give the up on Louisiana.
TOPS has historically been the one thing that earners in Louisiana could look to positively regarding taxes when getting out and grinding every day.
frick all y'all that wanted the Medicaid expansion that will destroy us eventually while bitching about TOPS.
Taking away TOPS while expanding Medicaid just makes everyone want to move to Texas and give the up on Louisiana.
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 7:00 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 6:57 pm to Lsujacket66
Also, and this is why financial need is so important...
I'd rather fund a kid coming out of Nola public schools making a 2.5 and a 21 than a kid from Denham Springs High making a 2.5 and 21.
I'd rather fund a kid coming out of Nola public schools making a 2.5 and a 21 than a kid from Denham Springs High making a 2.5 and 21.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 7:02 pm to Lsujacket66
pending some verification by the school for enrollment and gpa/hours, yeah.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 7:03 pm to Scoop
quote:
all y'all that wanted the Medicaid expansion that will destroy us eventually while bitching about TOPS.
hard to imagine that's a very big group
Posted on 5/10/17 at 7:08 pm to lionward2014
quote:
That said, it has become a hand out. I have seen numerous people lose it after a semester and drop out, and really they shouldn't have been in school anyway but with free money might as well go party for a semester
Which is why a "payback" stipulation needs to be added. And make it where it's enforceable like Child Support (court ordered paycheck deductions).
Posted on 5/10/17 at 7:19 pm to tigeraddict
quote:
Tops was a way to funnel money to state institutions without directly funding state institutions.
State funding of universities went drastically down at the same time tops was instituted, and as funding to universities was cut over time, tuition at said universities has more then tripled, thus what the state pays for tops has goes up accordingly.
shell game
Bingo!
Posted on 5/10/17 at 7:24 pm to lsusteve1
quote:
Which is why a "payback" stipulation needs to be added. And make it where it's enforceable like Child Support (court ordered paycheck deductions).
That would make kids choose whether they should really go to college or not too
Posted on 5/10/17 at 7:37 pm to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Whether you agree with it or not, its mission was to keep the best and brightest in Louisiana, which is a noble mission.
It does the exact opposite.
quote:
when did schools in the LSU & UL system stop giving scholarships?
Because of TOPS, LSU has no incentive to give scholarships to in-state students. So the top tier of Louisiana students are courted out-of-state.
About 15 years ago, a National Merit Finalist with a 32+ ACT score would get an option of their dorm room paid for, or $500 a year.
Meanwhile, better out-of-state schools were offering full rides, room and board, a laptop, and cash.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 7:51 pm to CapperVin
Because TOPS is the one program that doesn't discriminate. It's earned by the child, period.
Posted on 5/10/17 at 7:54 pm to CapperVin
Need to do what we do with teachers whos schooling we pay for.
Stick around for two years after you graduate or pay us back
Stick around for two years after you graduate or pay us back
This post was edited on 5/10/17 at 7:54 pm
Posted on 5/10/17 at 8:03 pm to CapperVin
Higher education used to be properly funded. When I started as a freshman at LSU, tuition was about $500 per semester. Almost everyone could afford it. The university paid good salaries and we had a really good faculty, with good profs moving here from out of state to teach.
Then the jackasses in the legislature made a policy decision not to properly fund the university system, making tuition go up, a lot. So our top high school graduates started fleeing out of state for better schools and more affordable schools.
So this billionaire named Taylor put up his fortune to give free tuition for top Louisiana students to keep them here. The program was designed and targeted to the best. Income and need had nothing to do with it. It was to elevate our educated and professional class. But it was popular, so the legislature expanded it to cover more students.
Them the idiot legislature and Jindal started cutting more and more from higher education, further shifting the funding for colleges to the backs of students, and also making TOPS, as the now primary source of funding, more expensive.
Now they are cutting TOPS and still not funding the universities, driving them to bankruptcy and ruin.
Now my daughter, a top elite high school junior (like 4.0 and 35 ACT) has no intention of staying in state.
Can I say idiot legislature again?
Then the jackasses in the legislature made a policy decision not to properly fund the university system, making tuition go up, a lot. So our top high school graduates started fleeing out of state for better schools and more affordable schools.
So this billionaire named Taylor put up his fortune to give free tuition for top Louisiana students to keep them here. The program was designed and targeted to the best. Income and need had nothing to do with it. It was to elevate our educated and professional class. But it was popular, so the legislature expanded it to cover more students.
Them the idiot legislature and Jindal started cutting more and more from higher education, further shifting the funding for colleges to the backs of students, and also making TOPS, as the now primary source of funding, more expensive.
Now they are cutting TOPS and still not funding the universities, driving them to bankruptcy and ruin.
Now my daughter, a top elite high school junior (like 4.0 and 35 ACT) has no intention of staying in state.
Can I say idiot legislature again?
Posted on 5/10/17 at 8:23 pm to TBoy
quote:
So this billionaire named Taylor put up his fortune to give free tuition for top Louisiana students to keep them here. The program was designed and targeted to the best. Income and need had nothing to do with it. It was to elevate our educated and professional class. But it was popular, so the legislature expanded it to cover more students.
At least make a quick search on the topic...
quote:
The original 1989 “Taylor Plan” required that students earn a 2.5 GPA in a 17.5 unit college prep curriculum and score of 18 on the ACT. Because the program was implemented initially for low and moderate-income students, the legislature capped the family income requirement at $25,000 for families with one dependent child, increasing it by $5,000 for each additional child, up to a maximum of $35,000. The “Taylor Plan” awarded qualified students with tuition and fees at any 4-year public college or university in Louisiana.
LINK /
Posted on 5/10/17 at 8:27 pm to CapperVin
Its the only thing that made me even consider staying in state for undergrad. Alas, it still wasnt enough
Posted on 5/10/17 at 8:41 pm to CapperVin
quote:
Why should the state be mandated to pay for your kids education? Since when did higher learning become a right. And the majority of the people that support TOPS complain about subsidies for healthcare, the government bailing out the student loan industry, or anyone that gets any type of handout from the government.
Why is TOPS any different? Surely it's not because people with kids are going to stand to receive such a huge monetary benefit? If so, what a bunch of hypocrites.
If I'm missing something please explain
First answer this:
Does the state have an interest in funding colleges and universities?
If you think universities are important (and most people do) why not fund the students to go to the college they choose. In other words, the money follows the students.
This is better since than distributing state funds according to some formula that basically entrenches the current system.
School X sucks? It won't get many TOPS students.
School Y is great? Students (and their TOPS money) will flow to it.
Not perfect, but MUCH better than the old system.
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